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[Music]

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i am george knapp listening to that ufo

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podcast and having one hell of a good

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hi everyone and welcome back to that ufo

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podcast my name is andy and i'm

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delighted to be joined by two former

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guests on the podcast they have their

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own stories to tell and they are both

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covered in detail on previous episodes

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so make sure you do check those out we

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have james ian dolly host of the

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wonderful engaging the phenomenon

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youtube channel and jay christopher king

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who is co-founder of the experiencer

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group and regular co-host of witness

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citizen now with sean rash as well

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gentlemen welcome both to the podcast

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absolutely great hey it's it's

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absolutely fantastic to be back auntie

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i love your show and i'm so happy to be

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here on such a great occasion it's

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awesome

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thank you and james i'm sure you echoed

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those sentiments yeah

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totally totally yeah obviously i love

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that ufo podcast it's great being able

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to talk to you face to face again you

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know you know digitally yes so yeah

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thanks so much for having us well listen

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i'm only disappointed that i can't be at

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this event and um i won't lie there

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there were times i checked flights um

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but just with life and all that kind of

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stuff and my wife gave me like an

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approving eye

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um

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and my passport being out of date that

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uh i won't be able to make it but the

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event you're putting on we're going to

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discuss in detail as an inquiry into

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anomalous experiences and the phenomenon

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link for that will be in the description

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it is an in-person and virtual event

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with limited tickets on on both fronts

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and that's on october 8th this year in

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new york city my favorite place in the

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world and that's at the helen mills

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theater uh i'm going to just run through

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the guests very quickly because it's

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quite the lineup and i would say that a

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lot of lineups who lost ralph blumenthal

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as a guest would struggle to fill that

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void but i think it's stellar with the

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with the replacements as well so you've

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got dr gary nolan

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mitch horowitz dr sean esbjorn hargens

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darren from exo academia and dr tim

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grave carlson hosted by james and jay

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yourselves but also priscilla stone of

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quantum witch cafe and also the

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anomalous podcast network and kelly

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chase of the wonderful ufo rabbit hole

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podcast

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and we're going to dig into those guests

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very soon uh but first off i want to ask

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you how did the conference even come

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about what was that spark of inspiration

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who's best to start off this story

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um i i could start yeah i mean

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so that i you can say the genesis of

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this was with what me and jay

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you know jokingly not jokingly call

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you know new york city ufo supper club

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and you know jay and i

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being uh you know we live in the same

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kind of area generally speaking

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and we started meeting together for

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you know dinners in in new york city

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with uh you know between ourselves and

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other researchers and experiencers

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and

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having amazing conversations right uh

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really deep conversations

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and uh so that's that's kind of how we

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we started getting together and you know

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actually jay had mentioned it to me like

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um

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do you want to

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what'd you think about doing a

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conference and the funny thing about

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that was is like for several weeks i was

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like thinking like man we should me me

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and jay and the ufo supper club we

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should do some kind of an event

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um

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but uh i have to admit jay's vision was

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was much greater i was just thinking

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like we can do a small thing for like

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two hours with us or maybe some other

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people um

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but

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uh it it really took on a life of its

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own

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and um

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and we decided to to just do it um jay

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what about you

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yeah absolutely so yeah as james was

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mentioning we had been kind of getting

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together regularly in person about once

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a month

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either just by ourselves or with people

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that happen to be visiting town it's you

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know both ufo supper club in new york

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city and this conference it's

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taking advantage a little bit of the

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fact that it's that new york city is

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such a nexus point uh for for people and

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the people are coming through town all

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the time and so

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being able to take advantage of those

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opportunities to be able to bring people

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together

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has been

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already something that james and i have

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found really

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wonderful and engaging and

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just a fantastic experience to do so why

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not take that situation that we

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we've been dealing with together and

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then bring it into the wider community

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and so

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yeah you know i guess it was like ufo

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super club three or four or something

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like that or just after

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where we started talking about hey maybe

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we should throw an event together that'd

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be amazing you know one of the things

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here is that new york city

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never has conferences these days like

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within this field and it's such a dense

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area of the country and the east coast

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in general like most of the us

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conferences happen out on the west coast

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and or the southwest

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and um there's been scattered events but

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it really has been since uh but hopkins

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passed

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um for the most part that there have

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been really active

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kind of more intellectually driven

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conferences happening in or around new

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york city for the most part

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and uh james and i would really really

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like to change that so this is an

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opportunity to take a solid step in that

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direction for sure

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you know even for someone like myself

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clearly not based in the united states

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since i started the podcast and getting

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to know people like yourselves and and

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speaking to the wonderful guests that i

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have

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i've looked at after covid when the

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conferences have started back up and

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like you say the quickest place for me

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to fly to it tends to be new york it's

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the first stop on that east coast but

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like everything tends to be middle of

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the country south

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right over on that west coast and that

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just adds on hundreds and hundreds of

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pounds and additional accommodation and

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it just makes it all that harder to get

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to so like i say if i had more notice

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not blaming you gents this is something

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that if it had been a bit further down

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the line i would have been like yeah i

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could make that because you're you're

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expanding it's not just a new york

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audience you've got people who who are

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and katy howland is traveling from the

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the uk over for this event as well so

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you're opening up to an international

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market as well aren't you

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yeah there are people coming from the uk

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there are people coming from california

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i know folks coming from texas minnesota

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ohio maryland all over and

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you know where there's a will there's a

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way and

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there's

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a hunger for

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i think you know in this kind of

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pandemic post-pandemic however you want

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to frame it

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mindset where people have been cooped up

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for so long and

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people have had time during the pandemic

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to kind of

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look into

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whatever their fascinations have been

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you know it's been a period of

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re-rooting for a lot of people some

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people took out bread making some people

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got really into ufology you know what i

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mean and anomalous studies and really

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kind of investing themselves in that and

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so

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we recognize that that there's that

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there's a hunger for people to be able

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to meet up in person again

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and being able to see each other again

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and you know i think that it'll promote

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positivity probably within within the

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field as well because

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when you're able to kind of break bread

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with people

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see people in person engage with them

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physically then you know it tends to

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shift the conversation and people tend

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to have a better understanding of each

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other uh when they're able to get

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together wouldn't you say james

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yeah totally and and another thing is

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that you know minus the the lack of

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events over here on the east coast the

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interest is incredibly high it's not

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that the interest isn't here it's just

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that people haven't took the initiative

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to put together events like this

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on the east coast and especially in new

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york city and i again i think there's

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power

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in um doing an event like this in the

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heart of new york city

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um kind of like the message it sends out

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and again in a positive way

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and i think that it's going to have a

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ripple effect and hopefully it

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encourages other people to do you know

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similar things here on the east coast

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because you know as i jokingly say you

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know i want uap to be synonymous with

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nyc or vice versa and i think it's

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totally doable and you know there's a

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lot of great researchers that are

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actually in the tri-state area over here

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by new york new jersey connecticut and

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the surrounding areas um you know and

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even dc and you know within driving

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distance of new york city there's a ton

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of great researchers who can you know

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participate in events like this

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let me stay let me stay with you james

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on that one

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what is your target audience for an

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event like this because not only is it

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face-to-face there is also that virtual

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option which is great for for listeners

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on this who who maybe can't reach nyc or

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are in the area but can't make it on the

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day there's of course people who are

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going to buy tickets because they are

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interested in the ufo topic they are

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researchers they are just fans of

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ufology if you want to call it that

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but are you hoping for attention for an

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event like this outside of that ufo

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bubble

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uh in a sense i would say that at the

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event and kind of the vision and what

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we're doing you know obviously not just

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the phenomenon but we included and

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highlighted anomalous experiences

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and so that's a very kind of broad

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stroke in one sense um because that

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could almost be anything that people

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would consider paranormal right and i

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00:10:14,150 --> 00:10:12,080
don't mean that in a pejorative way i'm

280
00:10:16,870 --> 00:10:14,160
just you know at what people consider

281
00:10:19,750 --> 00:10:16,880
paranormal generally

282
00:10:21,670 --> 00:10:19,760
overlap so much with the ufo phenomenon

283
00:10:22,870 --> 00:10:21,680
and so what we're doing here is being

284
00:10:23,750 --> 00:10:22,880
inclusive

285
00:10:25,670 --> 00:10:23,760
um

286
00:10:28,550 --> 00:10:25,680
and and also

287
00:10:30,630 --> 00:10:28,560
and i you know it's it's almost in a

288
00:10:32,710 --> 00:10:30,640
sense i would say

289
00:10:35,750 --> 00:10:32,720
um leading edge

290
00:10:37,190 --> 00:10:35,760
but it's it's more apparent now as part

291
00:10:39,670 --> 00:10:37,200
of the conversation

292
00:10:42,310 --> 00:10:39,680
post slide nine so i'm talking about

293
00:10:43,110 --> 00:10:42,320
atip slide nine take a look at that

294
00:10:44,790 --> 00:10:43,120
right

295
00:10:47,750 --> 00:10:44,800
and you're gonna be like oh my god

296
00:10:50,630 --> 00:10:47,760
that's like anomalous you know anonymous

297
00:10:52,470 --> 00:10:50,640
experiences type um you know material or

298
00:10:54,949 --> 00:10:52,480
what people would call paranormal or the

299
00:10:57,590 --> 00:10:54,959
occult you know the hitchhiker effect

300
00:10:59,110 --> 00:10:57,600
all that you know again even maybe five

301
00:11:00,949 --> 00:10:59,120
or six years ago people weren't

302
00:11:02,790 --> 00:11:00,959
generally

303
00:11:05,350 --> 00:11:02,800
tying together with

304
00:11:06,790 --> 00:11:05,360
with ufos and the phenomenon

305
00:11:09,350 --> 00:11:06,800
some people who were very deep into the

306
00:11:11,430 --> 00:11:09,360
research um would you know have made

307
00:11:13,750 --> 00:11:11,440
those connections already but you know

308
00:11:16,550 --> 00:11:13,760
we have a brand new wave and generation

309
00:11:18,069 --> 00:11:16,560
of researchers who are like wow you know

310
00:11:21,030 --> 00:11:18,079
the tic tac

311
00:11:23,190 --> 00:11:21,040
nimitz you know event and you have what

312
00:11:24,870 --> 00:11:23,200
happened to commander fravor and

313
00:11:26,870 --> 00:11:24,880
everybody with the meeting at the cap

314
00:11:29,590 --> 00:11:26,880
point and what you know somebody like

315
00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:29,600
john alexander would call a sentient uh

316
00:11:35,509 --> 00:11:32,560
precognitive intelligence right and and

317
00:11:37,110 --> 00:11:35,519
that actually is stuff we're including

318
00:11:39,910 --> 00:11:37,120
in this event because that

319
00:11:42,870 --> 00:11:39,920
that stuff actually um falls into the

320
00:11:45,870 --> 00:11:42,880
anomalous experiences territory and um

321
00:11:47,750 --> 00:11:45,880
you know and just as a direct example

322
00:11:48,790 --> 00:11:47,760
ssaic

323
00:11:49,750 --> 00:11:48,800
um

324
00:11:58,870 --> 00:11:49,760
the

325
00:12:01,910 --> 00:11:58,880
secret machines book by um peter

326
00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:01,920
lavender and tom delong uh the the title

327
00:12:06,389 --> 00:12:04,000
of the document is called anomalous

328
00:12:08,710 --> 00:12:06,399
mental phenomena right

329
00:12:10,470 --> 00:12:08,720
and that's basically psy psychic

330
00:12:12,389 --> 00:12:10,480
phenomena and anything that falls into

331
00:12:13,350 --> 00:12:12,399
the consciousness category

332
00:12:14,870 --> 00:12:13,360
um

333
00:12:17,910 --> 00:12:14,880
and again

334
00:12:19,829 --> 00:12:17,920
after a slide nine world basically i

335
00:12:20,949 --> 00:12:19,839
think it's apparent that that's

336
00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:20,959
incl you know it's part of the

337
00:12:23,670 --> 00:12:22,160
conversation

338
00:12:25,750 --> 00:12:23,680
not aside from it

339
00:12:28,470 --> 00:12:25,760
uh what about you jay

340
00:12:30,710 --> 00:12:28,480
yeah i agree i i think

341
00:12:33,190 --> 00:12:30,720
one of the initial

342
00:12:35,350 --> 00:12:33,200
inspirations for kind of coming together

343
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:35,360
with this is that uh we were talking

344
00:12:38,629 --> 00:12:37,200
about the archives of the impossible

345
00:12:41,910 --> 00:12:38,639
conference

346
00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:41,920
that was organized by

347
00:12:48,230 --> 00:12:44,959
jeff kreipel down at rice university and

348
00:12:50,550 --> 00:12:48,240
his gym department the department within

349
00:12:53,110 --> 00:12:50,560
religious studies and philosophy of

350
00:12:54,790 --> 00:12:53,120
gnosticism esotericism and mysticism

351
00:12:55,750 --> 00:12:54,800
which has been kind of like a hiding

352
00:12:58,550 --> 00:12:55,760
place

353
00:13:00,389 --> 00:12:58,560
for for academics and intellectuals that

354
00:13:03,030 --> 00:13:00,399
have been

355
00:13:03,710 --> 00:13:03,040
you know very much driven by

356
00:13:06,470 --> 00:13:03,720
the

357
00:13:08,629 --> 00:13:06,480
humanities and social sciences

358
00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:08,639
based approach towards looking at the

359
00:13:13,110 --> 00:13:10,800
phenomenon or anomalous studies in

360
00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:13,120
general and so looking at that wider

361
00:13:17,829 --> 00:13:14,480
framework

362
00:13:20,389 --> 00:13:17,839
seems really key right because

363
00:13:22,389 --> 00:13:20,399
we're just i think what i liked about

364
00:13:24,470 --> 00:13:22,399
that and i don't mean to speak for you

365
00:13:26,550 --> 00:13:24,480
james but what we've talked about prior

366
00:13:28,710 --> 00:13:26,560
is is that that kind of approach where

367
00:13:29,910 --> 00:13:28,720
you can build a bigger tent

368
00:13:32,790 --> 00:13:29,920
and create

369
00:13:34,710 --> 00:13:32,800
larger conversations you know maybe we

370
00:13:37,190 --> 00:13:34,720
can stumble upon

371
00:13:40,150 --> 00:13:37,200
some greater truths through asking those

372
00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:40,160
bigger questions as a community that

373
00:13:44,470 --> 00:13:42,320
invites in other aspects of the

374
00:13:46,790 --> 00:13:44,480
phenomenon or other aspects that might

375
00:13:50,710 --> 00:13:46,800
be a little bit tricky for one subset of

376
00:13:52,949 --> 00:13:50,720
the community right and so we've been

377
00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:52,959
and it's very natural to do such a thing

378
00:13:57,509 --> 00:13:54,480
i mean look at

379
00:13:59,269 --> 00:13:57,519
when we talk about the atip or articles

380
00:14:00,629 --> 00:13:59,279
in the new york times things like that

381
00:14:03,430 --> 00:14:00,639
we're talking about leslie kane and

382
00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:03,440
ralph blumenthal and leslie herself we

383
00:14:07,750 --> 00:14:05,040
just had dinner with her the other day

384
00:14:09,910 --> 00:14:07,760
and she happens to be

385
00:14:12,389 --> 00:14:09,920
one of the people that outed the atip

386
00:14:14,790 --> 00:14:12,399
program and and published those now

387
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:14,800
incredibly world famous cockpit videos

388
00:14:17,670 --> 00:14:16,399
and at the same time

389
00:14:20,470 --> 00:14:17,680
she

390
00:14:21,509 --> 00:14:20,480
uh wrote the book surviving death which

391
00:14:24,150 --> 00:14:21,519
you know is

392
00:14:26,150 --> 00:14:24,160
much about the survival of consciousness

393
00:14:28,870 --> 00:14:26,160
and was turned into a hit netflix show

394
00:14:31,829 --> 00:14:28,880
last year and she was also very close

395
00:14:34,230 --> 00:14:31,839
with bud hopkins or you know earlier

396
00:14:36,389 --> 00:14:34,240
in her life and so

397
00:14:38,310 --> 00:14:36,399
when we think about these situations we

398
00:14:40,389 --> 00:14:38,320
often think that you know people have to

399
00:14:43,110 --> 00:14:40,399
be nuts and bolts you know often there's

400
00:14:45,829 --> 00:14:43,120
these considerations where you're either

401
00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:45,839
a ghost person or a nuts and bolts

402
00:14:50,470 --> 00:14:48,720
person or this or that and

403
00:14:52,389 --> 00:14:50,480
it seems like we might be missing a

404
00:14:55,670 --> 00:14:52,399
bigger picture and having the

405
00:14:58,069 --> 00:14:55,680
opportunity to invite in more academics

406
00:14:59,990 --> 00:14:58,079
more scientists more people with broader

407
00:15:02,790 --> 00:15:00,000
backgrounds and be able to kind of

408
00:15:04,949 --> 00:15:02,800
provoke dialogue and conversation among

409
00:15:07,110 --> 00:15:04,959
those groups we might be able to get a

410
00:15:09,269 --> 00:15:07,120
bigger picture uh

411
00:15:10,470 --> 00:15:09,279
in in the near future which would be

412
00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:10,480
great right

413
00:15:14,949 --> 00:15:12,959
yeah and just really quick to add to

414
00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:14,959
what jay was saying about the archives

415
00:15:18,150 --> 00:15:16,480
of the impossible

416
00:15:22,310 --> 00:15:18,160
um you know

417
00:15:25,030 --> 00:15:22,320
invisible college

418
00:15:26,870 --> 00:15:25,040
and esslin which which some people will

419
00:15:30,069 --> 00:15:26,880
be familiar with here that you know a

420
00:15:32,870 --> 00:15:30,079
lot of these people in the background or

421
00:15:34,870 --> 00:15:32,880
deep into this stuff are at having those

422
00:15:35,750 --> 00:15:34,880
kind of private conferences

423
00:15:38,389 --> 00:15:35,760
and

424
00:15:41,430 --> 00:15:38,399
like

425
00:15:44,069 --> 00:15:41,440
in some way a forward you know a public

426
00:15:46,150 --> 00:15:44,079
conversation in that same regard

427
00:15:47,590 --> 00:15:46,160
where um you know because a lot of times

428
00:15:48,870 --> 00:15:47,600
they don't want to be criticized they

429
00:15:50,230 --> 00:15:48,880
don't want their research being

430
00:15:52,949 --> 00:15:50,240
interfered with

431
00:15:55,110 --> 00:15:52,959
but uh it's it's i think time for that

432
00:15:56,150 --> 00:15:55,120
conversation to be more public and open

433
00:15:58,230 --> 00:15:56,160
i think that's something that we're

434
00:16:00,069 --> 00:15:58,240
doing with here

435
00:16:01,590 --> 00:16:00,079
let's let's talk about that that group

436
00:16:04,150 --> 00:16:01,600
that's going to be part of the event

437
00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:04,160
obviously we've got um kicking off i'll

438
00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:05,440
start with the name and then i'll let

439
00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:06,720
one of you come in then we'll run

440
00:16:10,069 --> 00:16:07,680
through them

441
00:16:11,990 --> 00:16:10,079
dr gary nolan i think it's fair to say

442
00:16:13,829 --> 00:16:12,000
is that the headline name is wonderful

443
00:16:15,990 --> 00:16:13,839
as the speakers are and i don't think

444
00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:16,000
that's unfair his star is currently

445
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:18,720
shining very bright not only in the

446
00:16:23,269 --> 00:16:20,880
world of interviews newscasts he's taken

447
00:16:24,710 --> 00:16:23,279
over as the face i think of the ufo

448
00:16:27,269 --> 00:16:24,720
movement currently especially in the

449
00:16:29,670 --> 00:16:27,279
mainstream media he speaks very well

450
00:16:31,829 --> 00:16:29,680
he's very charismatic and his appearance

451
00:16:33,350 --> 00:16:31,839
with tucker carlson not long ago

452
00:16:35,749 --> 00:16:33,360
certainly raised a lot of eyebrows as

453
00:16:36,790 --> 00:16:35,759
well in the general i think mainstream

454
00:16:39,189 --> 00:16:36,800
um

455
00:16:41,670 --> 00:16:39,199
he's a scientific voice leading the ufo

456
00:16:44,230 --> 00:16:41,680
movement now as opposed to i think he's

457
00:16:46,069 --> 00:16:44,240
replaced luis elizondo currently or

458
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:46,079
temporarily who knows

459
00:16:50,069 --> 00:16:48,240
who was the government

460
00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:50,079
who had come out of the shadows and i

461
00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:52,480
ran on a program known as atip

462
00:16:57,269 --> 00:16:54,720
and all those questions came in and as

463
00:16:59,269 --> 00:16:57,279
that's as lewis can i faded away for the

464
00:17:01,749 --> 00:16:59,279
time being for various reasons

465
00:17:04,390 --> 00:17:01,759
gary nolan as a scientist has taken over

466
00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:04,400
that mantle so if one of you wants to

467
00:17:07,429 --> 00:17:06,000
kick off tell us a little bit about what

468
00:17:09,029 --> 00:17:07,439
gary's going to bring to the conference

469
00:17:11,029 --> 00:17:09,039
and why it was important to get gary

470
00:17:13,669 --> 00:17:11,039
involved

471
00:17:15,669 --> 00:17:13,679
well i think um you know

472
00:17:17,669 --> 00:17:15,679
dr nolan or you know

473
00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:17,679
just to say actually you know he's also

474
00:17:20,789 --> 00:17:19,600
he's a professor so his professor dr

475
00:17:23,829 --> 00:17:20,799
gary nolan

476
00:17:26,390 --> 00:17:23,839
um so he has the mindset of a teacher

477
00:17:27,429 --> 00:17:26,400
basically which is an amazing thing

478
00:17:30,310 --> 00:17:27,439
um

479
00:17:32,710 --> 00:17:30,320
regarding this topic and

480
00:17:34,950 --> 00:17:32,720
the wonderful thing about gary i think

481
00:17:37,270 --> 00:17:34,960
um other than you know he's an academic

482
00:17:40,390 --> 00:17:37,280
and and diana posalka had said you know

483
00:17:42,549 --> 00:17:40,400
academics have a different approach to

484
00:17:44,710 --> 00:17:42,559
um their work

485
00:17:46,950 --> 00:17:44,720
you know rather than say that the

486
00:17:48,710 --> 00:17:46,960
government or people with um you know

487
00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:48,720
classification where they can't really

488
00:17:53,190 --> 00:17:51,280
share but academics want to share they

489
00:17:55,510 --> 00:17:53,200
actually they have to they're mandated

490
00:17:57,669 --> 00:17:55,520
to share and show their work so other

491
00:17:59,430 --> 00:17:57,679
people can can you know

492
00:18:01,029 --> 00:17:59,440
share and peer review the information

493
00:18:01,830 --> 00:18:01,039
and contribute to it

494
00:18:04,150 --> 00:18:01,840
um

495
00:18:05,510 --> 00:18:04,160
but also you know gary's worked on the

496
00:18:07,909 --> 00:18:05,520
materials

497
00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:07,919
uh you know he's done the analysis of

498
00:18:11,029 --> 00:18:08,880
those

499
00:18:13,590 --> 00:18:11,039
he's done a peer-reviewed paper with

500
00:18:15,510 --> 00:18:13,600
valet on that and

501
00:18:16,390 --> 00:18:15,520
you know he's worked with experiencers

502
00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:16,400
so

503
00:18:21,510 --> 00:18:18,000
you know

504
00:18:23,350 --> 00:18:21,520
dr gary nolan and dr kick green and i'm

505
00:18:24,549 --> 00:18:23,360
sure other people in the background have

506
00:18:27,270 --> 00:18:24,559
been doing

507
00:18:30,390 --> 00:18:27,280
um you know these this research with

508
00:18:32,310 --> 00:18:30,400
experiencers and i think i think it's

509
00:18:34,390 --> 00:18:32,320
fair to say publicly that jim semivan

510
00:18:35,430 --> 00:18:34,400
said he was even involved in that

511
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:35,440
um

512
00:18:39,669 --> 00:18:37,440
you know along with many others and

513
00:18:41,110 --> 00:18:39,679
you know they are they're doing cutting

514
00:18:42,630 --> 00:18:41,120
edge work

515
00:18:44,230 --> 00:18:42,640
you know whether you want to say what

516
00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:44,240
talk about the materials that they're

517
00:18:50,310 --> 00:18:47,200
analyzing uh and you know obviously the

518
00:18:52,230 --> 00:18:50,320
the technology that dr noland patented

519
00:18:53,909 --> 00:18:52,240
is like the only technology in the world

520
00:18:56,310 --> 00:18:53,919
that can do what it does

521
00:18:57,510 --> 00:18:56,320
to take a closer look at both ufo

522
00:19:00,070 --> 00:18:57,520
materials

523
00:19:01,110 --> 00:19:00,080
and and also experiencers

524
00:19:02,230 --> 00:19:01,120
so

525
00:19:03,430 --> 00:19:02,240
i think

526
00:19:05,510 --> 00:19:03,440
you know

527
00:19:08,470 --> 00:19:05,520
being able to kind of have that nuts and

528
00:19:10,630 --> 00:19:08,480
bolts but also the side where

529
00:19:12,870 --> 00:19:10,640
you're dealing with experiencers

530
00:19:14,470 --> 00:19:12,880
and and the caudate butane man which is

531
00:19:16,630 --> 00:19:14,480
something that he came out with which

532
00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:16,640
you're talking about intuition so you're

533
00:19:20,950 --> 00:19:18,240
basically talking about psychic

534
00:19:22,070 --> 00:19:20,960
phenomenon right and possible center in

535
00:19:24,070 --> 00:19:22,080
the brain

536
00:19:26,870 --> 00:19:24,080
that where that could possibly be

537
00:19:28,789 --> 00:19:26,880
tracked again he he will state he'll be

538
00:19:31,990 --> 00:19:28,799
the first to say it's a hypothesis it's

539
00:19:33,190 --> 00:19:32,000
preliminary data um but it's being done

540
00:19:34,950 --> 00:19:33,200
it's cutting-edge work and the

541
00:19:36,470 --> 00:19:34,960
implications of that are huge what do

542
00:19:39,110 --> 00:19:36,480
you think jay

543
00:19:40,630 --> 00:19:39,120
yeah i would i i would agree i think

544
00:19:43,430 --> 00:19:40,640
gary nolan

545
00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:43,440
you know gary has emerged at such a

546
00:19:49,830 --> 00:19:46,160
critical juncture i think i think it's

547
00:19:50,789 --> 00:19:49,840
amazing timing uh that he's come forward

548
00:19:54,390 --> 00:19:50,799
more

549
00:19:57,990 --> 00:19:54,400
and i i love hearing about his kind of

550
00:20:00,950 --> 00:19:58,000
decision to do that and it's incredible

551
00:20:02,950 --> 00:20:00,960
that even just in recent weeks

552
00:20:05,350 --> 00:20:02,960
he's talked more about his own

553
00:20:06,950 --> 00:20:05,360
experiences with non-human entities and

554
00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:06,960
craft

555
00:20:12,390 --> 00:20:09,600
in that recent documentary produced by

556
00:20:15,190 --> 00:20:12,400
channel 7 australia with ross coulthart

557
00:20:18,070 --> 00:20:15,200
and bryce sabo was involved as well i

558
00:20:20,470 --> 00:20:18,080
think that having people like him that

559
00:20:23,110 --> 00:20:20,480
are nobel prize nominees

560
00:20:24,630 --> 00:20:23,120
that are that are such significant

561
00:20:26,789 --> 00:20:24,640
figures

562
00:20:28,549 --> 00:20:26,799
at significant institutions you know

563
00:20:30,789 --> 00:20:28,559
he's considered one of the best of the

564
00:20:32,710 --> 00:20:30,799
best at one of the best american

565
00:20:33,750 --> 00:20:32,720
institutions for science

566
00:20:35,510 --> 00:20:33,760
and so

567
00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:35,520
having somebody like that kind of lay it

568
00:20:39,270 --> 00:20:37,200
on the line

569
00:20:41,110 --> 00:20:39,280
after they already have their own lab

570
00:20:42,549 --> 00:20:41,120
after they already have it in down chair

571
00:20:45,110 --> 00:20:42,559
and things like that

572
00:20:46,830 --> 00:20:45,120
it takes an enormous amount

573
00:20:49,510 --> 00:20:46,840
of

574
00:20:53,510 --> 00:20:49,520
you know

575
00:20:55,909 --> 00:20:53,520
it takes an enormous amount of honesty

576
00:20:57,190 --> 00:20:55,919
and credibility and

577
00:20:58,549 --> 00:20:57,200
gumption

578
00:21:07,909 --> 00:20:58,559
and

579
00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:07,919
wonderful person to to speak with as

580
00:21:10,549 --> 00:21:09,600
well you know having such a bright

581
00:21:13,590 --> 00:21:10,559
figure

582
00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:13,600
and i think that there is something

583
00:21:15,750 --> 00:21:14,640
about

584
00:21:18,870 --> 00:21:15,760
what

585
00:21:19,830 --> 00:21:18,880
the position that gary is at

586
00:21:23,029 --> 00:21:19,840
and

587
00:21:24,789 --> 00:21:23,039
how he explains himself as james was

588
00:21:26,230 --> 00:21:24,799
talking about as a teacher as an

589
00:21:29,270 --> 00:21:26,240
educator

590
00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:29,280
that makes him particularly

591
00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:31,679
vital at this moment and also the fact

592
00:21:35,990 --> 00:21:34,080
that you know he has all these medic he

593
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:36,000
also all these patents for what he's

594
00:21:41,110 --> 00:21:38,880
done right and so he's also an

595
00:21:43,029 --> 00:21:41,120
incredibly wealthy individual

596
00:21:44,549 --> 00:21:43,039
uh you know not many people know that

597
00:21:47,270 --> 00:21:44,559
but he did that

598
00:21:50,310 --> 00:21:47,280
himself off of his own inventions right

599
00:21:52,390 --> 00:21:50,320
and that tends to shut people up as well

600
00:21:54,470 --> 00:21:52,400
you know all of these things tend to

601
00:21:57,029 --> 00:21:54,480
shut people up in different ways in

602
00:21:58,950 --> 00:21:57,039
terms of criticism and skepticism and

603
00:22:02,310 --> 00:21:58,960
things like that and so you know if

604
00:22:05,430 --> 00:22:02,320
you're looking at somebody like elizondo

605
00:22:08,630 --> 00:22:05,440
who has so many admirable qualities

606
00:22:11,350 --> 00:22:08,640
you know there is a different swath of

607
00:22:13,510 --> 00:22:11,360
the public that is going to listen to a

608
00:22:16,789 --> 00:22:13,520
man like gary that is going to listen to

609
00:22:18,950 --> 00:22:16,799
lou and they complement each other i

610
00:22:22,950 --> 00:22:18,960
mean in different ways and so you know

611
00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:22,960
as we add voices to the choir we get to

612
00:22:27,669 --> 00:22:25,360
see the credibility build within the

613
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:27,679
topic and within the larger field of

614
00:22:32,390 --> 00:22:30,320
anomalous studies in general i think

615
00:22:34,470 --> 00:22:32,400
yeah that's really well put as well and

616
00:22:36,310 --> 00:22:34,480
gary's backed up by a wonderful

617
00:22:37,909 --> 00:22:36,320
supporting cast behind them and i don't

618
00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:37,919
mean that the derogatory sense at all

619
00:22:41,110 --> 00:22:39,440
because as

620
00:22:43,590 --> 00:22:41,120
mitch horowitz what will mitch be

621
00:22:45,590 --> 00:22:43,600
bringing to the to the conversation jay

622
00:22:48,549 --> 00:22:45,600
do i stick with you on this one

623
00:22:51,909 --> 00:22:48,559
sure yeah mitch is an amazing

624
00:22:54,149 --> 00:22:51,919
uh award-winning author you know he's

625
00:22:57,750 --> 00:22:54,159
his books include occult america which

626
00:23:00,789 --> 00:22:57,760
is an amazing uh historical read on the

627
00:23:02,789 --> 00:23:00,799
spread of kind of spiritual seeking

628
00:23:04,710 --> 00:23:02,799
thinking and the understanding of the

629
00:23:08,870 --> 00:23:04,720
paranormal through

630
00:23:09,830 --> 00:23:08,880
uh the last 300 years in in the united

631
00:23:10,870 --> 00:23:09,840
states

632
00:23:13,029 --> 00:23:10,880
and he's

633
00:23:16,390 --> 00:23:13,039
you know he is also an editor a

634
00:23:17,909 --> 00:23:16,400
long-standing editor of of similar texts

635
00:23:20,549 --> 00:23:17,919
and he's also written for the new york

636
00:23:23,510 --> 00:23:20,559
times the wall street journal washington

637
00:23:25,590 --> 00:23:23,520
post time politico but what he's

638
00:23:27,590 --> 00:23:25,600
bringing specifically to this conference

639
00:23:31,669 --> 00:23:27,600
is that he's going to do a one-hour talk

640
00:23:35,110 --> 00:23:31,679
on the academic history of esp studies

641
00:23:37,029 --> 00:23:35,120
and a way forward with academic esp

642
00:23:37,830 --> 00:23:37,039
studies and the base that's already

643
00:23:40,390 --> 00:23:37,840
there

644
00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:40,400
and i think that that is an incredibly

645
00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:43,200
helpful layer that we can put on on on

646
00:23:47,990 --> 00:23:45,520
this conversation mitch is a very

647
00:23:50,390 --> 00:23:48,000
powerful orator he's an incredibly

648
00:23:52,870 --> 00:23:50,400
eloquent speaker and i think that he can

649
00:23:55,029 --> 00:23:52,880
speak to the seriousness of academic

650
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:55,039
inquiry and study

651
00:24:00,950 --> 00:23:57,360
within these wider fields and

652
00:24:02,870 --> 00:24:00,960
and give voice to how we can

653
00:24:04,710 --> 00:24:02,880
really have a road map for the future

654
00:24:06,630 --> 00:24:04,720
wouldn't you say james

655
00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:06,640
yeah totally and again i encourage

656
00:24:11,669 --> 00:24:09,120
anybody who who maybe in the ufo

657
00:24:14,149 --> 00:24:11,679
conversation has not heard of mitch

658
00:24:15,669 --> 00:24:14,159
horowitz before uh you're you're gonna

659
00:24:17,269 --> 00:24:15,679
hear about them after this event for

660
00:24:20,070 --> 00:24:17,279
sure

661
00:24:22,230 --> 00:24:20,080
included in the conversation because

662
00:24:25,110 --> 00:24:22,240
i mean if he's he's written wonderful

663
00:24:28,470 --> 00:24:25,120
books and he's he's given amazing talks

664
00:24:30,630 --> 00:24:28,480
and he has a way of being such a clear

665
00:24:32,789 --> 00:24:30,640
and even down to earth communicator

666
00:24:33,590 --> 00:24:32,799
about these these topics that seem kind

667
00:24:34,710 --> 00:24:33,600
of

668
00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:34,720
um

669
00:24:39,590 --> 00:24:37,760
you know again occult or paranormal

670
00:24:41,190 --> 00:24:39,600
you know you could attach those kind of

671
00:24:43,029 --> 00:24:41,200
words to it but that when he speaks

672
00:24:44,630 --> 00:24:43,039
about it it doesn't really even really

673
00:24:47,350 --> 00:24:44,640
sound like it when he talks about it

674
00:24:49,430 --> 00:24:47,360
sounds like oh yeah i get it now so uh

675
00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:49,440
you know it's great to have uh mitch

676
00:24:54,149 --> 00:24:51,360
participate in this event and again

677
00:24:55,750 --> 00:24:54,159
talking about kind of esp research is is

678
00:24:59,350 --> 00:24:55,760
right up the alley of

679
00:25:01,350 --> 00:24:59,360
um the whole slide nine conversation

680
00:25:03,510 --> 00:25:01,360
and james will stick with you with dr

681
00:25:06,149 --> 00:25:03,520
sean esbjorn hargens hopefully i'm

682
00:25:09,110 --> 00:25:06,159
pronouncing that properly

683
00:25:09,909 --> 00:25:09,120
yeah sean i i mean it's incredible that

684
00:25:12,070 --> 00:25:09,919
that

685
00:25:14,710 --> 00:25:12,080
we were able to have him participate

686
00:25:16,549 --> 00:25:14,720
um jay could could definitely speak more

687
00:25:18,310 --> 00:25:16,559
to sean just because he's he's been a

688
00:25:21,669 --> 00:25:18,320
student in some of his classes and his

689
00:25:23,750 --> 00:25:21,679
courses but i i came across him

690
00:25:26,710 --> 00:25:23,760
uh actually a few years ago and i was

691
00:25:27,669 --> 00:25:26,720
just blown away he's he's somebody

692
00:25:28,950 --> 00:25:27,679
where

693
00:25:31,029 --> 00:25:28,960
after you hear him talk you're going to

694
00:25:33,909 --> 00:25:31,039
say like why isn't this guy on like that

695
00:25:36,630 --> 00:25:33,919
ufo podcast or even like you know all

696
00:25:39,750 --> 00:25:36,640
the the famous podcast because he's he's

697
00:25:42,149 --> 00:25:39,760
such an intelligent dude and um

698
00:25:45,269 --> 00:25:42,159
he can speak to so many you know diverse

699
00:25:47,590 --> 00:25:45,279
topics from you know psychic phenomenon

700
00:25:49,110 --> 00:25:47,600
to you know ufos and contact and

701
00:25:51,909 --> 00:25:49,120
non-human intelligence in a pretty

702
00:25:54,630 --> 00:25:51,919
incredible way what do you think jay

703
00:25:57,350 --> 00:25:54,640
yeah absolutely um dr shawn and aspiring

704
00:25:59,750 --> 00:25:57,360
hargens i i followed his work for quite

705
00:26:04,310 --> 00:25:59,760
a while um i took a one-year course with

706
00:26:06,870 --> 00:26:04,320
them he is he's also a dean of integral

707
00:26:09,029 --> 00:26:06,880
education and noetic sciences at the

708
00:26:11,669 --> 00:26:09,039
california institute of human science

709
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:11,679
and there he has actually created a new

710
00:26:17,909 --> 00:26:14,400
program just within this last year

711
00:26:20,070 --> 00:26:17,919
a trail blazing new program that's a phd

712
00:26:23,590 --> 00:26:20,080
program as well as a master's program

713
00:26:25,669 --> 00:26:23,600
focusing purely on anomalous studies

714
00:26:27,269 --> 00:26:25,679
it's it's a really unique situation

715
00:26:28,870 --> 00:26:27,279
within the united states there are very

716
00:26:31,110 --> 00:26:28,880
few programs like this you've got jeff

717
00:26:33,669 --> 00:26:31,120
kreipel's down in texas you've got sean

718
00:26:35,590 --> 00:26:33,679
out in california and other than that

719
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:35,600
it's few and far between you have you

720
00:26:40,950 --> 00:26:38,720
know lone wolves like gary that kind of

721
00:26:42,789 --> 00:26:40,960
create an island within their community

722
00:26:43,590 --> 00:26:42,799
and then you have people like sean and

723
00:26:45,830 --> 00:26:43,600
jeff

724
00:26:48,470 --> 00:26:45,840
that really try to create a larger

725
00:26:49,590 --> 00:26:48,480
umbrella on a program-wide scale to to

726
00:26:51,669 --> 00:26:49,600
be able to

727
00:26:55,110 --> 00:26:51,679
to

728
00:26:58,149 --> 00:26:55,120
let people have the academic

729
00:27:00,070 --> 00:26:58,159
shade over them to sit and work and

730
00:27:02,549 --> 00:27:00,080
really

731
00:27:04,149 --> 00:27:02,559
work on things for up to seven eight

732
00:27:06,230 --> 00:27:04,159
years you know on these on these

733
00:27:09,909 --> 00:27:06,240
situations within the academic framework

734
00:27:12,149 --> 00:27:09,919
and then move on with a phd and so he's

735
00:27:14,549 --> 00:27:12,159
doing incredible work that way i know

736
00:27:16,549 --> 00:27:14,559
that he's going to have a series of

737
00:27:18,230 --> 00:27:16,559
pretty amazing and eye-opening

738
00:27:19,750 --> 00:27:18,240
announcements that he's planning on

739
00:27:21,350 --> 00:27:19,760
making at the conference which i'm

740
00:27:24,390 --> 00:27:21,360
really excited about

741
00:27:25,990 --> 00:27:24,400
in terms of studies and in terms of of

742
00:27:29,110 --> 00:27:26,000
published work that's going to be coming

743
00:27:31,990 --> 00:27:29,120
up and that's going to be really cool

744
00:27:35,029 --> 00:27:32,000
but i i just love him i i love him as a

745
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:35,039
thinker he's really unique in terms of

746
00:27:39,269 --> 00:27:37,600
how he thinks about diagramming the

747
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:39,279
phenomenon and really thinking about

748
00:27:43,750 --> 00:27:41,840
taxonomy and thinking about like okay

749
00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:43,760
those are the grays you know this is the

750
00:27:48,470 --> 00:27:46,240
hitchhiker phenomenon and trying to

751
00:27:51,350 --> 00:27:48,480
figure out like a mental map

752
00:27:53,029 --> 00:27:51,360
for what all of this is because you know

753
00:27:54,870 --> 00:27:53,039
there's often the tendency to kind of

754
00:27:57,430 --> 00:27:54,880
dump things down and say it's all one

755
00:28:00,310 --> 00:27:57,440
thing or something like that and he does

756
00:28:02,230 --> 00:28:00,320
a great job of really looking at the

757
00:28:04,549 --> 00:28:02,240
differences

758
00:28:07,510 --> 00:28:04,559
within particular aspects

759
00:28:10,149 --> 00:28:07,520
of anomalous studies and really pokes at

760
00:28:12,789 --> 00:28:10,159
those differences and and uses them to

761
00:28:14,710 --> 00:28:12,799
try to create a larger framework for

762
00:28:16,230 --> 00:28:14,720
what we're really dealing with here we

763
00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:16,240
have private conversations sometimes

764
00:28:20,310 --> 00:28:17,840
where it's like you know we might be

765
00:28:22,789 --> 00:28:20,320
dealing with like a whole phone book

766
00:28:25,110 --> 00:28:22,799
worth of different kinds of entities and

767
00:28:27,269 --> 00:28:25,120
intelligences and things like this we

768
00:28:30,149 --> 00:28:27,279
just don't know but we have to start you

769
00:28:31,909 --> 00:28:30,159
know writing out that phone book right

770
00:28:33,669 --> 00:28:31,919
we have to start delineating these

771
00:28:35,830 --> 00:28:33,679
differences and he's taking that

772
00:28:38,630 --> 00:28:35,840
incredibly seriously at a program-wide

773
00:28:39,990 --> 00:28:38,640
level within an academic institution and

774
00:28:41,909 --> 00:28:40,000
i think that that

775
00:28:44,070 --> 00:28:41,919
should be applauded and i look forward

776
00:28:45,110 --> 00:28:44,080
to more people knowing sean's work in

777
00:28:46,870 --> 00:28:45,120
the future

778
00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:46,880
well since james called me out on that

779
00:28:51,110 --> 00:28:49,440
one i'll get his details for for sean

780
00:28:52,870 --> 00:28:51,120
and i'll reach out to him for after the

781
00:28:54,310 --> 00:28:52,880
conference then we can hopefully do a

782
00:28:56,149 --> 00:28:54,320
follow-up but that sounds really

783
00:28:57,590 --> 00:28:56,159
interesting jay and i've i've mentioned

784
00:28:59,830 --> 00:28:57,600
on the podcast before look really

785
00:29:01,909 --> 00:28:59,840
crudely like i wonder if you know you

786
00:29:03,830 --> 00:29:01,919
could get whatever beings may be inside

787
00:29:06,230 --> 00:29:03,840
of a flying saucer which other beings

788
00:29:07,830 --> 00:29:06,240
may be inside of a black triangle and be

789
00:29:09,510 --> 00:29:07,840
like oh do you know each other and they

790
00:29:11,350 --> 00:29:09,520
might be like nope

791
00:29:12,870 --> 00:29:11,360
no idea who those guys are and we just

792
00:29:14,710 --> 00:29:12,880
assume oh yeah they'll be coming from

793
00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:14,720
all different places but you don't know

794
00:29:18,630 --> 00:29:17,039
and are they even aware of each other

795
00:29:20,470 --> 00:29:18,640
does it matter to them that they are

796
00:29:22,230 --> 00:29:20,480
there and do they even exist at the same

797
00:29:23,909 --> 00:29:22,240
time can they exist at the same time in

798
00:29:25,990 --> 00:29:23,919
place so yeah that's a really

799
00:29:27,669 --> 00:29:26,000
interesting conversation to to bring up

800
00:29:28,870 --> 00:29:27,679
so i look forward to hearing that one

801
00:29:31,029 --> 00:29:28,880
myself

802
00:29:33,669 --> 00:29:31,039
absolutely absolutely

803
00:29:36,470 --> 00:29:33,679
darren also known as exo academian on

804
00:29:37,909 --> 00:29:36,480
twitter and wonderful voice i appreciate

805
00:29:40,950 --> 00:29:37,919
obviously from a podcasting point of

806
00:29:42,710 --> 00:29:40,960
view as well um darren i'll mention

807
00:29:44,549 --> 00:29:42,720
because i feel being a podcaster too i

808
00:29:47,190 --> 00:29:44,559
should i should give his shows a shout

809
00:29:49,510 --> 00:29:47,200
out people will know liminal phases or

810
00:29:52,070 --> 00:29:49,520
liminal frames sorry what she was doing

811
00:29:53,830 --> 00:29:52,080
with uh nathan as people know as a wave

812
00:29:55,909 --> 00:29:53,840
soul from calling all beings as well i'm

813
00:29:57,430 --> 00:29:55,919
shouting out all the broadcast names now

814
00:29:59,590 --> 00:29:57,440
that was on a little bit of a break but

815
00:30:01,830 --> 00:29:59,600
it's coming back very soon uh having a

816
00:30:03,669 --> 00:30:01,840
summer break um also his own point of

817
00:30:07,830 --> 00:30:03,679
convergence podcast which is very

818
00:30:09,510 --> 00:30:07,840
popular um darren is a wonderful host um

819
00:30:12,070 --> 00:30:09,520
great thinker great to hear him talk and

820
00:30:14,389 --> 00:30:12,080
discuss the ufo subject as well and i

821
00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:14,399
know his recent episode with nathan i am

822
00:30:17,510 --> 00:30:16,320
sure for liminal frames has just come

823
00:30:19,269 --> 00:30:17,520
back as well

824
00:30:22,149 --> 00:30:19,279
talking about the landscape of

825
00:30:23,590 --> 00:30:22,159
podcasting especially in terms of ufos

826
00:30:25,269 --> 00:30:23,600
social media

827
00:30:27,350 --> 00:30:25,279
and where we can sit right now and it's

828
00:30:29,350 --> 00:30:27,360
a really interesting adult

829
00:30:30,950 --> 00:30:29,360
mature conversation for anyone who might

830
00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:30,960
be thinking oh i don't want involved in

831
00:30:34,870 --> 00:30:33,440
the drama it's not about that it's a

832
00:30:36,230 --> 00:30:34,880
really intelligent conversation and

833
00:30:39,110 --> 00:30:36,240
that's what you always get from someone

834
00:30:41,510 --> 00:30:39,120
like darren and and james i imagine

835
00:30:42,710 --> 00:30:41,520
darren's conversation at the conference

836
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:42,720
is going to be one that people should

837
00:30:48,230 --> 00:30:45,360
pay attention to as well yeah

838
00:30:50,870 --> 00:30:48,240
yeah darren um or you know otherwise

839
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:50,880
known as exo academian

840
00:30:55,269 --> 00:30:53,360
i think in as far as the podcasting

841
00:30:57,350 --> 00:30:55,279
world when when you're talking about

842
00:30:59,830 --> 00:30:57,360
things like ufos

843
00:31:02,549 --> 00:30:59,840
and especially when concerning

844
00:31:05,269 --> 00:31:02,559
subjects like consciousness

845
00:31:06,710 --> 00:31:05,279
and the the the nature of reality and

846
00:31:10,470 --> 00:31:06,720
integral thinking

847
00:31:11,909 --> 00:31:10,480
um you know darren has such a a great

848
00:31:14,630 --> 00:31:11,919
way

849
00:31:16,950 --> 00:31:14,640
of of kind of like breaking things down

850
00:31:19,750 --> 00:31:16,960
and explaining them it's like you know

851
00:31:20,789 --> 00:31:19,760
each episode is like an essay really

852
00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:20,799
um

853
00:31:25,269 --> 00:31:23,440
and you know he's he's covered

854
00:31:27,669 --> 00:31:25,279
a lot of different things on the his

855
00:31:29,830 --> 00:31:27,679
point of convergence podcast

856
00:31:31,830 --> 00:31:29,840
and you know i i expect

857
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:31,840
at the conference he's going to do

858
00:31:36,470 --> 00:31:33,760
something you know similar along those

859
00:31:37,430 --> 00:31:36,480
lines and anytime that darren

860
00:31:38,789 --> 00:31:37,440
um

861
00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:38,799
covers a theme

862
00:31:42,389 --> 00:31:39,760
i think

863
00:31:44,470 --> 00:31:42,399
after that conversation you know even

864
00:31:46,870 --> 00:31:44,480
i've been involved in the research for

865
00:31:49,269 --> 00:31:46,880
you know almost 20 years and

866
00:31:51,830 --> 00:31:49,279
i always come out with different

867
00:31:52,630 --> 00:31:51,840
perspectives and things i didn't know

868
00:31:56,310 --> 00:31:52,640
so

869
00:31:57,110 --> 00:31:56,320
having darren there to present and and

870
00:31:59,350 --> 00:31:57,120
talk

871
00:32:01,750 --> 00:31:59,360
at this conference i think is

872
00:32:05,110 --> 00:32:01,760
kind of exactly along the lines of that

873
00:32:06,950 --> 00:32:05,120
theme of you know both cutting edge and

874
00:32:09,830 --> 00:32:06,960
being inclusive

875
00:32:12,389 --> 00:32:09,840
um while well kind of being able to

876
00:32:14,710 --> 00:32:12,399
touch on such a wide you know spectrum

877
00:32:16,789 --> 00:32:14,720
of subjects what do you think jay

878
00:32:18,630 --> 00:32:16,799
yeah i'm really excited about uh darren

879
00:32:21,190 --> 00:32:18,640
joining us you know

880
00:32:23,269 --> 00:32:21,200
he's just reached his 70th episode he

881
00:32:26,310 --> 00:32:23,279
just published his 70th episode of point

882
00:32:28,710 --> 00:32:26,320
of convergence and this is a guy who

883
00:32:31,269 --> 00:32:28,720
takes on such big topics every time he

884
00:32:33,350 --> 00:32:31,279
does an episode you know he methodically

885
00:32:35,909 --> 00:32:33,360
writes out each one ahead of time so

886
00:32:38,070 --> 00:32:35,919
he's basically reading a 45

887
00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:38,080
minute to an hour long talk every time

888
00:32:41,669 --> 00:32:39,760
he publishes one of these things and

889
00:32:44,230 --> 00:32:41,679
he's talking about things like what's

890
00:32:48,509 --> 00:32:44,240
the fundamental nature of reality what

891
00:32:50,710 --> 00:32:48,519
is time space uh fundamental uh who are

892
00:32:53,509 --> 00:32:50,720
ultra-terrestrials and where are they

893
00:32:55,909 --> 00:32:53,519
these incredibly huge and thorny topics

894
00:32:59,029 --> 00:32:55,919
that you know you could take two of his

895
00:33:01,190 --> 00:32:59,039
episodes and that might be

896
00:33:03,190 --> 00:33:01,200
one person's whole career like thinking

897
00:33:06,389 --> 00:33:03,200
about the the nature of space-time or

898
00:33:08,470 --> 00:33:06,399
something like that and he

899
00:33:11,269 --> 00:33:08,480
i have to admire people like that that

900
00:33:12,789 --> 00:33:11,279
really kind of swing for the fences

901
00:33:13,990 --> 00:33:12,799
intellectually within what they're

902
00:33:16,870 --> 00:33:14,000
trying to do

903
00:33:19,750 --> 00:33:16,880
and i i think it's amazing and we're

904
00:33:22,710 --> 00:33:19,760
both honored that this is darren's first

905
00:33:26,070 --> 00:33:22,720
public conference appearance doing a

906
00:33:28,230 --> 00:33:26,080
talk um since kind of coming forward

907
00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:28,240
it was just a few months ago that

908
00:33:31,269 --> 00:33:30,000
anybody knew what his face looked like

909
00:33:33,750 --> 00:33:31,279
and that he

910
00:33:35,909 --> 00:33:33,760
told folks what his first name was and

911
00:33:37,830 --> 00:33:35,919
and that was on james's

912
00:33:39,430 --> 00:33:37,840
james's show engaging the phenomenon

913
00:33:42,070 --> 00:33:39,440
just a few months ago

914
00:33:44,630 --> 00:33:42,080
and i'm sure the response uh to that was

915
00:33:46,549 --> 00:33:44,640
pretty wild wasn't it james

916
00:33:48,389 --> 00:33:46,559
yeah for sure and it's you know it's

917
00:33:51,350 --> 00:33:48,399
notable that you know

918
00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:51,360
uh darren or exo academia has gleaned

919
00:33:55,029 --> 00:33:53,200
some insight from attending that the

920
00:33:56,870 --> 00:33:55,039
monroe institute

921
00:33:58,950 --> 00:33:56,880
event where they were doing you know

922
00:34:01,110 --> 00:33:58,960
human initiated contact

923
00:34:02,789 --> 00:34:01,120
you know at the monroe institute and you

924
00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:02,799
know utilizing all these contact

925
00:34:06,470 --> 00:34:04,080
modalities

926
00:34:07,990 --> 00:34:06,480
um so that you know he has that kind of

927
00:34:09,589 --> 00:34:08,000
to bring to the table as well some

928
00:34:11,510 --> 00:34:09,599
background and whatever he may have

929
00:34:13,589 --> 00:34:11,520
learned there

930
00:34:15,669 --> 00:34:13,599
i'm really looking forward to it

931
00:34:17,510 --> 00:34:15,679
yeah not that sorry i cut you off there

932
00:34:19,030 --> 00:34:17,520
but yeah that is one to look forward to

933
00:34:20,950 --> 00:34:19,040
darren's wonderful and like you say it's

934
00:34:23,589 --> 00:34:20,960
nice to have the the face to put to the

935
00:34:25,030 --> 00:34:23,599
name because for a long time um god i

936
00:34:26,629 --> 00:34:25,040
think it was well over a year ago i

937
00:34:28,550 --> 00:34:26,639
think i reached out to

938
00:34:30,149 --> 00:34:28,560
darren before he was known to say would

939
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:30,159
you want to come on the podcast sometime

940
00:34:33,109 --> 00:34:31,919
and for obvious reasons they always want

941
00:34:35,109 --> 00:34:33,119
to just stay in the background but

942
00:34:37,750 --> 00:34:35,119
that's maybe one to to get on in future

943
00:34:40,149 --> 00:34:37,760
if you'd do me the pleasure and then uh

944
00:34:43,669 --> 00:34:40,159
finally we've got dr tim grieve carlson

945
00:34:47,109 --> 00:34:43,679
who wants to take that one for his gents

946
00:34:49,109 --> 00:34:47,119
well i maybe i'll start i i met tim

947
00:34:50,470 --> 00:34:49,119
down at the archives of the impossible

948
00:34:52,629 --> 00:34:50,480
conference

949
00:34:54,550 --> 00:34:52,639
through jeffrey kreipel

950
00:34:56,950 --> 00:34:54,560
tim grief carlson is kind of a star

951
00:34:59,670 --> 00:34:56,960
student of jeff's and for those that

952
00:35:01,349 --> 00:34:59,680
don't know jeff cripple's work

953
00:35:03,589 --> 00:35:01,359
he's one of the most significant

954
00:35:04,390 --> 00:35:03,599
academics working in the united states

955
00:35:07,190 --> 00:35:04,400
and

956
00:35:09,829 --> 00:35:07,200
he's a very key figure behind the scenes

957
00:35:12,550 --> 00:35:09,839
in terms of of pushing forward the

958
00:35:14,950 --> 00:35:12,560
dialogue he organizes a series of

959
00:35:17,589 --> 00:35:14,960
private conferences that i

960
00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:17,599
wouldn't want to even get into too far

961
00:35:21,829 --> 00:35:19,440
in terms of what he's doing there but

962
00:35:23,190 --> 00:35:21,839
he's a really bright figure and

963
00:35:26,310 --> 00:35:23,200
you know he

964
00:35:28,950 --> 00:35:26,320
did an amazing thing jeff in terms of

965
00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:28,960
of creating this new archives of the

966
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:32,560
impossible at rice which has collected

967
00:35:38,150 --> 00:35:35,760
uh chocolate's archive for example

968
00:35:40,470 --> 00:35:38,160
whitley strieber a lot of archival

969
00:35:41,990 --> 00:35:40,480
material from willie strieber

970
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:42,000
collected things from

971
00:35:46,710 --> 00:35:44,880
narcap from leslie kane

972
00:35:50,069 --> 00:35:46,720
from the physical medium stuart

973
00:35:52,790 --> 00:35:50,079
alexander there are a lot of interesting

974
00:35:55,270 --> 00:35:52,800
folks that all of a sudden their

975
00:35:57,349 --> 00:35:55,280
documentation all of their their effects

976
00:35:58,390 --> 00:35:57,359
that they'd like to put forward their

977
00:36:01,910 --> 00:35:58,400
writing

978
00:36:04,390 --> 00:36:01,920
will be kept and preserved for future

979
00:36:06,550 --> 00:36:04,400
generations of academics that might even

980
00:36:10,069 --> 00:36:06,560
take these subjects more

981
00:36:13,270 --> 00:36:10,079
more seriously in the future than do now

982
00:36:15,510 --> 00:36:13,280
and so that an academic institution like

983
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:15,520
rice was able to put serious money

984
00:36:19,589 --> 00:36:18,480
behind this effort is a big deal and so

985
00:36:21,670 --> 00:36:19,599
they've started this series of

986
00:36:24,790 --> 00:36:21,680
conferences themselves from the academic

987
00:36:28,230 --> 00:36:24,800
framework and tim grief carlson both is

988
00:36:31,910 --> 00:36:28,240
a key figure in the archives themselves

989
00:36:33,910 --> 00:36:31,920
uh in that he organized jacques valle's

990
00:36:35,829 --> 00:36:33,920
quote unquote secret archive down at the

991
00:36:38,550 --> 00:36:35,839
archives of the impossible which is not

992
00:36:39,510 --> 00:36:38,560
going to be revealed until about 2027 i

993
00:36:42,630 --> 00:36:39,520
believe

994
00:36:45,190 --> 00:36:42,640
and he also helped put together uh the

995
00:36:47,109 --> 00:36:45,200
conference and other people's effects

996
00:36:50,630 --> 00:36:47,119
down at the archives so he's a

997
00:36:52,790 --> 00:36:50,640
significant figure uh in terms of

998
00:36:55,510 --> 00:36:52,800
what he's been

999
00:36:57,510 --> 00:36:55,520
kind of doing in terms of the grunt work

1000
00:36:59,589 --> 00:36:57,520
of of putting together like valet's

1001
00:37:00,550 --> 00:36:59,599
archive and at the same time

1002
00:37:03,430 --> 00:37:00,560
he's

1003
00:37:05,109 --> 00:37:03,440
a brilliant speaker incredible and he

1004
00:37:08,790 --> 00:37:05,119
has a book that's going to come out very

1005
00:37:10,870 --> 00:37:08,800
soon that's about um early anomalous

1006
00:37:12,630 --> 00:37:10,880
phenomena that was encountered by the

1007
00:37:14,790 --> 00:37:12,640
american settlers

1008
00:37:17,030 --> 00:37:14,800
and how it was recorded at the time how

1009
00:37:19,510 --> 00:37:17,040
it was processed at the time and how

1010
00:37:22,630 --> 00:37:19,520
people what people thought about it at

1011
00:37:25,910 --> 00:37:22,640
the time and so it will really augment

1012
00:37:28,230 --> 00:37:25,920
the work of say like wonders in the sky

1013
00:37:29,990 --> 00:37:28,240
the the chris obbeck jacques-villa text

1014
00:37:32,390 --> 00:37:30,000
and things like that where we're we're

1015
00:37:34,470 --> 00:37:32,400
or situations like even an american

1016
00:37:36,630 --> 00:37:34,480
cosmic where diana pasoka was talking

1017
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:36,640
about anomalous phenomenal situations

1018
00:37:41,990 --> 00:37:38,640
that were happening centuries ago and so

1019
00:37:43,510 --> 00:37:42,000
tim is going to be key in that movement

1020
00:37:45,349 --> 00:37:43,520
in terms of like fleshing out the

1021
00:37:47,589 --> 00:37:45,359
history and he's also going to be

1022
00:37:49,829 --> 00:37:47,599
delivering a new talk

1023
00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:49,839
for the conference that creates a

1024
00:37:54,230 --> 00:37:52,320
contemporary framework for how to look

1025
00:37:57,349 --> 00:37:54,240
back at those historical cases of

1026
00:37:59,910 --> 00:37:57,359
ecology and environmental phenomena and

1027
00:38:01,750 --> 00:37:59,920
anomalies and how we process them and

1028
00:38:03,990 --> 00:38:01,760
you know he's another guy that swings

1029
00:38:06,710 --> 00:38:04,000
for the fences and i'm excited to see

1030
00:38:08,710 --> 00:38:06,720
what he has to say james

1031
00:38:10,470 --> 00:38:08,720
yeah i'm really honored that he he

1032
00:38:12,150 --> 00:38:10,480
decided to participate in this event

1033
00:38:14,230 --> 00:38:12,160
with us and again i think

1034
00:38:15,190 --> 00:38:14,240
he's going to be somebody

1035
00:38:16,150 --> 00:38:15,200
where

1036
00:38:18,710 --> 00:38:16,160
you know

1037
00:38:21,030 --> 00:38:18,720
he he may not be very well known now in

1038
00:38:23,510 --> 00:38:21,040
the ufo community so to speak

1039
00:38:26,150 --> 00:38:23,520
but i think he will definitely become a

1040
00:38:28,069 --> 00:38:26,160
more prominent voice and researcher

1041
00:38:29,349 --> 00:38:28,079
and you know i'm glad that you know we

1042
00:38:31,349 --> 00:38:29,359
can have this

1043
00:38:32,470 --> 00:38:31,359
conference and and put him out there so

1044
00:38:35,190 --> 00:38:32,480
to speak

1045
00:38:37,190 --> 00:38:35,200
in in a way where he can talk about this

1046
00:38:38,710 --> 00:38:37,200
in in the framework of of the ufo

1047
00:38:40,069 --> 00:38:38,720
phenomenon so i'm looking forward to

1048
00:38:42,470 --> 00:38:40,079
that

1049
00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:42,480
yeah it's a it's a wonderful group

1050
00:38:46,310 --> 00:38:44,640
you've put together especially for a

1051
00:38:47,829 --> 00:38:46,320
first attempt at a conference let alone

1052
00:38:48,950 --> 00:38:47,839
if this was your tenth and you were

1053
00:38:52,710 --> 00:38:48,960
seasoned

1054
00:38:54,790 --> 00:38:52,720
events which i'm sure you'll you'll grow

1055
00:38:57,910 --> 00:38:54,800
to be and that's i'll definitely try and

1056
00:38:59,910 --> 00:38:57,920
get to the second or third i promised um

1057
00:39:02,310 --> 00:38:59,920
what i would like to know though is on a

1058
00:39:04,550 --> 00:39:02,320
recent update you shared on the

1059
00:39:06,550 --> 00:39:04,560
on your own channel james it was jay

1060
00:39:07,349 --> 00:39:06,560
himself said he couldn't say too much

1061
00:39:09,430 --> 00:39:07,359
but

1062
00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:09,440
you mentioned that not only would

1063
00:39:13,750 --> 00:39:11,920
someone in person attending

1064
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:13,760
get a seat in the room but potentially

1065
00:39:17,670 --> 00:39:15,200
there would be some other interesting

1066
00:39:19,510 --> 00:39:17,680
names in the room as well buying tickets

1067
00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:19,520
now i'm not necessarily asking you to

1068
00:39:24,470 --> 00:39:22,960
name who else will be there but

1069
00:39:27,589 --> 00:39:24,480
let's expand on that a little bit what

1070
00:39:31,589 --> 00:39:27,599
types of folks you expecting to turn up

1071
00:39:33,829 --> 00:39:31,599
wow that's uh that's a tough one andy

1072
00:39:35,349 --> 00:39:33,839
it is that's a tough one um

1073
00:39:40,630 --> 00:39:35,359
i

1074
00:39:43,750 --> 00:39:40,640
event

1075
00:39:46,550 --> 00:39:43,760
who who people will will know by name

1076
00:39:48,310 --> 00:39:46,560
for sure that's i don't i really don't

1077
00:39:50,950 --> 00:39:48,320
want to uh you know

1078
00:39:54,829 --> 00:39:50,960
uh put anybody out there for you know

1079
00:39:57,990 --> 00:39:54,839
that's kind of at their own their own um

1080
00:39:59,670 --> 00:39:58,000
decision yeah put it this way you know

1081
00:40:01,109 --> 00:39:59,680
if you've been following this field for

1082
00:40:02,790 --> 00:40:01,119
a while you're going to know a lot of

1083
00:40:04,630 --> 00:40:02,800
people in the audience again this is a

1084
00:40:06,710 --> 00:40:04,640
very small room it's a very intimate

1085
00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:06,720
situation and it's important to note

1086
00:40:11,349 --> 00:40:09,359
that at this point for your listeners as

1087
00:40:12,230 --> 00:40:11,359
kind of a public service announcement we

1088
00:40:16,069 --> 00:40:12,240
have

1089
00:40:19,510 --> 00:40:16,079
19 tickets remaining for live in person

1090
00:40:21,190 --> 00:40:19,520
19. so if you hear this podcast

1091
00:40:22,950 --> 00:40:21,200
jump on the link if you're interested in

1092
00:40:25,030 --> 00:40:22,960
coming out no matter where you are in

1093
00:40:27,510 --> 00:40:25,040
new york if you're on the east coast

1094
00:40:28,790 --> 00:40:27,520
wherever uh if you'd like to join us

1095
00:40:30,950 --> 00:40:28,800
please feel free and if you'd like to

1096
00:40:33,030 --> 00:40:30,960
join online we we have plenty of room

1097
00:40:34,870 --> 00:40:33,040
for you and we'd love to have you but

1098
00:40:36,790 --> 00:40:34,880
you know there there are going to be

1099
00:40:39,670 --> 00:40:36,800
people in the audience we could probably

1100
00:40:41,670 --> 00:40:39,680
make three other conferences

1101
00:40:43,670 --> 00:40:41,680
just based on some of the people that

1102
00:40:45,990 --> 00:40:43,680
are going to be showing up that day

1103
00:40:48,230 --> 00:40:46,000
and when when people actually see who's

1104
00:40:49,829 --> 00:40:48,240
there that's not going to seem that's

1105
00:40:52,470 --> 00:40:49,839
not going to seem like an oversell at

1106
00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:52,480
all i don't think james

1107
00:40:57,270 --> 00:40:55,760
yeah i agree and again i i i i'm very

1108
00:40:59,829 --> 00:40:57,280
careful what i want to say who's who's

1109
00:41:02,150 --> 00:40:59,839
coming and things like that but yeah

1110
00:41:03,430 --> 00:41:02,160
absolutely right i mean the part you

1111
00:41:05,349 --> 00:41:03,440
know the people that are going to be in

1112
00:41:07,589 --> 00:41:05,359
attendance you know that's that would be

1113
00:41:09,109 --> 00:41:07,599
a conference within itself

1114
00:41:11,349 --> 00:41:09,119
and i think when you when you get to

1115
00:41:12,870 --> 00:41:11,359
attend these conferences i'm i'm very

1116
00:41:14,870 --> 00:41:12,880
fortunate i'll be hosting awakening in

1117
00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:14,880
manchester on october 16th for anyone

1118
00:41:18,630 --> 00:41:16,960
who's attending that in the uk that's

1119
00:41:21,589 --> 00:41:18,640
scott whitley strieber richard daugherty

1120
00:41:23,109 --> 00:41:21,599
mike barra and steve mera and which is

1121
00:41:24,790 --> 00:41:23,119
is probably a very different conference

1122
00:41:26,710 --> 00:41:24,800
to what your gents are hosting here it's

1123
00:41:28,790 --> 00:41:26,720
a different aspect to the ufo

1124
00:41:30,230 --> 00:41:28,800
conversation and associated phenomena as

1125
00:41:30,950 --> 00:41:30,240
well

1126
00:41:33,030 --> 00:41:30,960
but

1127
00:41:35,109 --> 00:41:33,040
when you attend these conferences the

1128
00:41:36,790 --> 00:41:35,119
thing i enjoy the most i think is is

1129
00:41:38,950 --> 00:41:36,800
meeting and talking to the other people

1130
00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:38,960
who are attending with you that's not to

1131
00:41:42,230 --> 00:41:40,560
say that you've got chris marilyn and

1132
00:41:43,670 --> 00:41:42,240
loy lozando sat either side of you

1133
00:41:45,670 --> 00:41:43,680
nudging you now and again going that was

1134
00:41:47,190 --> 00:41:45,680
wonderful that presentation wasn't it

1135
00:41:48,870 --> 00:41:47,200
and that's not a clue who's attending

1136
00:41:51,430 --> 00:41:48,880
folks i'm just picking two names out of

1137
00:41:53,430 --> 00:41:51,440
the ether um but it's getting to talk to

1138
00:41:55,829 --> 00:41:53,440
like-minded individuals meet people face

1139
00:41:58,309 --> 00:41:55,839
to face meet new friends you know hear

1140
00:41:59,990 --> 00:41:58,319
new ideas discussions as you have those

1141
00:42:01,910 --> 00:42:00,000
breaks between the talks the bar

1142
00:42:03,829 --> 00:42:01,920
afterwards as people start to have a

1143
00:42:05,990 --> 00:42:03,839
couple of drinks and you know share new

1144
00:42:07,270 --> 00:42:06,000
ideas and that that's really like you

1145
00:42:10,230 --> 00:42:07,280
say jay

1146
00:42:11,750 --> 00:42:10,240
having coved and all of that wiping out

1147
00:42:14,150 --> 00:42:11,760
kind of a year and a half or two years

1148
00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:14,160
of us getting together i think people

1149
00:42:18,390 --> 00:42:16,560
maybe appreciate these a little bit more

1150
00:42:19,990 --> 00:42:18,400
um and that's why i kind of look forward

1151
00:42:21,430 --> 00:42:20,000
to it with these conferences starting

1152
00:42:22,950 --> 00:42:21,440
back up and i think this is what a

1153
00:42:25,190 --> 00:42:22,960
conference like this

1154
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:25,200
it can certainly contribute um obviously

1155
00:42:28,790 --> 00:42:26,640
i would ask you to go into more detail

1156
00:42:30,870 --> 00:42:28,800
or share initials or give us a clue does

1157
00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:30,880
it rhyme with dob lazar or anything but

1158
00:42:33,109 --> 00:42:32,160
you know

1159
00:42:34,950 --> 00:42:33,119
but yeah

1160
00:42:35,990 --> 00:42:34,960
i think even by the time this podcast

1161
00:42:37,910 --> 00:42:36,000
goes out

1162
00:42:39,670 --> 00:42:37,920
those 19 tickets will likely be gone but

1163
00:42:41,190 --> 00:42:39,680
if people should check anyway i'm going

1164
00:42:43,510 --> 00:42:41,200
to share straight away on social media

1165
00:42:45,589 --> 00:42:43,520
once we finish recording again to say

1166
00:42:47,430 --> 00:42:45,599
here's a link 19 tickets remaining folks

1167
00:42:49,430 --> 00:42:47,440
get them before they're gone and i'll be

1168
00:42:51,910 --> 00:42:49,440
joining the virtual event online like i

1169
00:42:53,589 --> 00:42:51,920
hope many many others do as well

1170
00:42:55,750 --> 00:42:53,599
one more thing i want to get to before

1171
00:42:57,589 --> 00:42:55,760
listener questions was there was a

1172
00:42:59,750 --> 00:42:57,599
conversation a little bit of a heated

1173
00:43:02,790 --> 00:42:59,760
debate between a couple of very

1174
00:43:05,990 --> 00:43:02,800
well-known and respected podcasters um

1175
00:43:08,390 --> 00:43:06,000
off the back of something jay i know you

1176
00:43:11,349 --> 00:43:08,400
had you had said and this was to do with

1177
00:43:14,390 --> 00:43:11,359
experiencers uh reporting their

1178
00:43:16,230 --> 00:43:14,400
abductions to the police

1179
00:43:18,710 --> 00:43:16,240
i actually brought this

1180
00:43:20,790 --> 00:43:18,720
topic up earlier today literally hours

1181
00:43:22,230 --> 00:43:20,800
ago with someone who has no interest in

1182
00:43:25,190 --> 00:43:22,240
the ufo topic

1183
00:43:27,030 --> 00:43:25,200
just a friend and uh

1184
00:43:28,710 --> 00:43:27,040
that they're very high level with any

1185
00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:28,720
kind of interest and very much on the

1186
00:43:32,230 --> 00:43:30,319
side of not really believing unless they

1187
00:43:34,069 --> 00:43:32,240
see it themselves and they actually have

1188
00:43:36,870 --> 00:43:34,079
a question for you both later on as well

1189
00:43:39,589 --> 00:43:36,880
and listener questions um but i

1190
00:43:41,510 --> 00:43:39,599
mentioned that it was it was it was

1191
00:43:44,790 --> 00:43:41,520
going between a few people

1192
00:43:46,309 --> 00:43:44,800
should experience us report abductions

1193
00:43:47,829 --> 00:43:46,319
to the police

1194
00:43:49,990 --> 00:43:47,839
and i know this was a conversation that

1195
00:43:51,910 --> 00:43:50,000
went back and forward and i thought it

1196
00:43:53,109 --> 00:43:51,920
was a really interesting

1197
00:43:55,990 --> 00:43:53,119
take

1198
00:43:57,670 --> 00:43:56,000
on how does that conversation even go

1199
00:43:59,990 --> 00:43:57,680
because i can see both sides i can see

1200
00:44:01,430 --> 00:44:00,000
the for and against and jay i think you

1201
00:44:03,430 --> 00:44:01,440
had mentioned that you were you were

1202
00:44:05,109 --> 00:44:03,440
very much for

1203
00:44:08,390 --> 00:44:05,119
if someone has had that sort of

1204
00:44:10,630 --> 00:44:08,400
experience reporting it

1205
00:44:12,950 --> 00:44:10,640
well in in my

1206
00:44:14,870 --> 00:44:12,960
you know it's a very tricky subject and

1207
00:44:16,470 --> 00:44:14,880
i think that this is one of these

1208
00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:16,480
situations where

1209
00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:18,880
what's what people should maybe do right

1210
00:44:21,910 --> 00:44:19,680
now

1211
00:44:23,670 --> 00:44:21,920
might be a little bit different from if

1212
00:44:25,829 --> 00:44:23,680
somebody's listening to this two years

1213
00:44:28,710 --> 00:44:25,839
on you know and two in

1214
00:44:29,589 --> 00:44:28,720
even just a few years there might be

1215
00:44:36,630 --> 00:44:29,599
better

1216
00:44:38,870 --> 00:44:36,640
there might be less stigma

1217
00:44:41,430 --> 00:44:38,880
and we hope more normalized

1218
00:44:42,630 --> 00:44:41,440
conversations along these topics uh than

1219
00:44:44,630 --> 00:44:42,640
there are now

1220
00:44:47,190 --> 00:44:44,640
but it's it's a very challenging and

1221
00:44:49,910 --> 00:44:47,200
trippy tricky subject right because

1222
00:44:51,750 --> 00:44:49,920
uh if you see something in the sky and

1223
00:44:54,390 --> 00:44:51,760
you call it in and report it that seems

1224
00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:54,400
like it's one thing if you say if you

1225
00:44:58,390 --> 00:44:56,160
were to call into your local police

1226
00:45:00,230 --> 00:44:58,400
department and say that there are you

1227
00:45:02,230 --> 00:45:00,240
know beings in your home or something

1228
00:45:04,470 --> 00:45:02,240
like that depending on who's on the

1229
00:45:06,309 --> 00:45:04,480
other end the end of the phone they

1230
00:45:08,630 --> 00:45:06,319
might perceive that in a very different

1231
00:45:11,270 --> 00:45:08,640
way than many people in our community

1232
00:45:12,470 --> 00:45:11,280
might even you know and even within our

1233
00:45:15,589 --> 00:45:12,480
community

1234
00:45:17,430 --> 00:45:15,599
it's a hot topic right people are okay

1235
00:45:19,829 --> 00:45:17,440
with there being like these mysterious

1236
00:45:21,990 --> 00:45:19,839
futuristic looking crafts in the sky but

1237
00:45:24,470 --> 00:45:22,000
there are people that inwardly have a

1238
00:45:26,550 --> 00:45:24,480
lot of challenging conflicting issues

1239
00:45:28,710 --> 00:45:26,560
about whether there's actually a being

1240
00:45:31,589 --> 00:45:28,720
in one of those crafts or not

1241
00:45:34,230 --> 00:45:31,599
right yeah and and being able to broach

1242
00:45:36,710 --> 00:45:34,240
that conversation and and being able to

1243
00:45:38,390 --> 00:45:36,720
say like okay like look

1244
00:45:45,270 --> 00:45:38,400
people see

1245
00:45:48,230 --> 00:45:45,280
the and we need and we depend on people

1246
00:45:51,670 --> 00:45:48,240
to say that they've seen these

1247
00:45:53,990 --> 00:45:51,680
these things right craft beings anything

1248
00:45:56,230 --> 00:45:54,000
if you see something say something right

1249
00:45:58,870 --> 00:45:56,240
it's important the whole field depends

1250
00:46:00,870 --> 00:45:58,880
on people making reports if we didn't

1251
00:46:04,069 --> 00:46:00,880
have those reports we'd have nothing to

1252
00:46:06,069 --> 00:46:04,079
go on within this community and so you

1253
00:46:08,470 --> 00:46:06,079
know that creates a base

1254
00:46:10,390 --> 00:46:08,480
it creates a base in in a situation

1255
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:10,400
where we need to respect the people that

1256
00:46:15,270 --> 00:46:13,200
are making these reports on a very basic

1257
00:46:17,270 --> 00:46:15,280
level we need to make it okay to be able

1258
00:46:18,950 --> 00:46:17,280
to make these reports and people can say

1259
00:46:21,109 --> 00:46:18,960
like i don't i don't know about this i

1260
00:46:22,950 --> 00:46:21,119
don't know about that but it you know

1261
00:46:24,950 --> 00:46:22,960
it's important to have a clear and

1262
00:46:27,349 --> 00:46:24,960
respectful line of communication by

1263
00:46:28,870 --> 00:46:27,359
which people can make reports

1264
00:46:30,390 --> 00:46:28,880
at the same time

1265
00:46:33,829 --> 00:46:30,400
you know in places like the united

1266
00:46:35,829 --> 00:46:33,839
states it's varied in terms of you know

1267
00:46:37,990 --> 00:46:35,839
what you're who you're going to get if

1268
00:46:40,309 --> 00:46:38,000
you call the police right

1269
00:46:42,470 --> 00:46:40,319
you know and i'm right now and i'm in

1270
00:46:45,430 --> 00:46:42,480
virginia i'm in i'm near virginia beach

1271
00:46:47,510 --> 00:46:45,440
today earlier today i was in jersey city

1272
00:46:50,150 --> 00:46:47,520
i might get a very different police

1273
00:46:51,829 --> 00:46:50,160
officer on the other end of the phone

1274
00:46:53,030 --> 00:46:51,839
and you could find yourself in a

1275
00:46:55,109 --> 00:46:53,040
situation

1276
00:46:56,870 --> 00:46:55,119
i've talked to experiencers that that

1277
00:46:58,630 --> 00:46:56,880
they worry if they make reports whether

1278
00:47:00,470 --> 00:46:58,640
they're going to lose their kids because

1279
00:47:02,790 --> 00:47:00,480
it's going to there all of a sudden

1280
00:47:05,109 --> 00:47:02,800
they're going to be in this this flow

1281
00:47:06,790 --> 00:47:05,119
with kind of the community framework

1282
00:47:08,150 --> 00:47:06,800
where somebody makes a report and then

1283
00:47:09,670 --> 00:47:08,160
it gets funneled over to child

1284
00:47:12,390 --> 00:47:09,680
protective services or something like

1285
00:47:13,910 --> 00:47:12,400
that god forbid and somebody might lose

1286
00:47:15,349 --> 00:47:13,920
custody of their own children because

1287
00:47:16,230 --> 00:47:15,359
they make a report

1288
00:47:18,950 --> 00:47:16,240
right

1289
00:47:21,750 --> 00:47:18,960
and and so we're in this

1290
00:47:24,069 --> 00:47:21,760
strange kind of wild west landscape

1291
00:47:26,630 --> 00:47:24,079
still with regard to these issues it's

1292
00:47:29,510 --> 00:47:26,640
one of the main reasons why you know the

1293
00:47:31,030 --> 00:47:29,520
language in in the new funding bills in

1294
00:47:33,109 --> 00:47:31,040
congress and things like that couldn't

1295
00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:33,119
come soon enough because we need to

1296
00:47:37,990 --> 00:47:35,520
normalize these conversations and we

1297
00:47:40,550 --> 00:47:38,000
need to destigmatize these topics so

1298
00:47:42,390 --> 00:47:40,560
that people can safely talk about these

1299
00:47:45,510 --> 00:47:42,400
even with people in positions of

1300
00:47:47,030 --> 00:47:45,520
authority like the police um without

1301
00:47:49,270 --> 00:47:47,040
wondering whether they're going to be

1302
00:47:51,190 --> 00:47:49,280
negative repercussions for them what do

1303
00:47:52,230 --> 00:47:51,200
you think james can i can i just because

1304
00:47:53,750 --> 00:47:52,240
james is going to come in and say

1305
00:47:55,829 --> 00:47:53,760
something really intelligent here so but

1306
00:47:57,510 --> 00:47:55,839
i'll ruin it before that

1307
00:47:59,589 --> 00:47:57,520
what what got me thinking to bring this

1308
00:48:00,630 --> 00:47:59,599
up as well was

1309
00:48:02,630 --> 00:48:00,640
it

1310
00:48:04,950 --> 00:48:02,640
to see that conversation together about

1311
00:48:07,589 --> 00:48:04,960
potential experiences slash abductions

1312
00:48:09,510 --> 00:48:07,599
whatever that may be conscious or not

1313
00:48:11,270 --> 00:48:09,520
with reporting something to the police

1314
00:48:13,430 --> 00:48:11,280
is just such a while it brings it back

1315
00:48:15,430 --> 00:48:13,440
to reality as we as we know it that you

1316
00:48:17,670 --> 00:48:15,440
report that to the police but you

1317
00:48:19,670 --> 00:48:17,680
mentioned a doctor sean is going hargens

1318
00:48:21,349 --> 00:48:19,680
who who has these diagrams and creates

1319
00:48:23,589 --> 00:48:21,359
those links between okay here's one

1320
00:48:25,670 --> 00:48:23,599
phenomena here's another phenomena and

1321
00:48:27,349 --> 00:48:25,680
as you as you go out that diagram the

1322
00:48:29,109 --> 00:48:27,359
phenomenon is going to wildly vary as to

1323
00:48:31,109 --> 00:48:29,119
what people can believe what they choose

1324
00:48:33,109 --> 00:48:31,119
to believe what in their own heads they

1325
00:48:35,190 --> 00:48:33,119
can rationalize as being realistic and

1326
00:48:37,670 --> 00:48:35,200
then what is it was too extreme or or

1327
00:48:39,670 --> 00:48:37,680
too woo as some people like to say and i

1328
00:48:41,510 --> 00:48:39,680
just think looking at the cast of

1329
00:48:43,349 --> 00:48:41,520
speakers that you have some of these are

1330
00:48:45,750 --> 00:48:43,359
all of these these people

1331
00:48:47,910 --> 00:48:45,760
can draw those lines between

1332
00:48:49,670 --> 00:48:47,920
like you say okay people are reporting a

1333
00:48:51,270 --> 00:48:49,680
craft in the sky you know but i've just

1334
00:48:53,430 --> 00:48:51,280
done a deep dive on the phoenix lights

1335
00:48:55,030 --> 00:48:53,440
people reported the phoenix lights has

1336
00:48:57,829 --> 00:48:55,040
it taken seriously was it taken

1337
00:48:59,349 --> 00:48:57,839
seriously no it wasn't and we know that

1338
00:49:02,230 --> 00:48:59,359
how do you get to that point like you

1339
00:49:04,150 --> 00:49:02,240
say of i've had an experience as a

1340
00:49:06,470 --> 00:49:04,160
criminal act should i report it and

1341
00:49:07,910 --> 00:49:06,480
who'd i report it to and i think you're

1342
00:49:10,470 --> 00:49:07,920
right that you say in a couple of years

1343
00:49:12,870 --> 00:49:10,480
time that landscape could look very

1344
00:49:14,950 --> 00:49:12,880
different as to how and when

1345
00:49:17,670 --> 00:49:14,960
maybe not necessarily experiences or

1346
00:49:19,829 --> 00:49:17,680
abductees can report to the police but

1347
00:49:21,990 --> 00:49:19,839
there will be something there a gary

1348
00:49:23,990 --> 00:49:22,000
nolan with the work he's doing uh

1349
00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:24,000
talking about various types of phenomena

1350
00:49:28,870 --> 00:49:26,640
is still for all gary's being

1351
00:49:30,390 --> 00:49:28,880
very outspoken and

1352
00:49:32,230 --> 00:49:30,400
a wonderful speaker

1353
00:49:34,470 --> 00:49:32,240
he still i think knows cleverly where to

1354
00:49:36,390 --> 00:49:34,480
draw that line right now for that

1355
00:49:38,390 --> 00:49:36,400
mainstream perception and you just have

1356
00:49:39,990 --> 00:49:38,400
to keep towing forward over the line

1357
00:49:40,790 --> 00:49:40,000
more and more each time

1358
00:49:42,309 --> 00:49:40,800
um

1359
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:42,319
and we've seen that with other speakers

1360
00:49:45,430 --> 00:49:43,680
in the last couple of years as well

1361
00:49:46,470 --> 00:49:45,440
where they say more and more as time

1362
00:49:48,470 --> 00:49:46,480
goes on

1363
00:49:50,870 --> 00:49:48,480
but it was a fascinating idea of a

1364
00:49:52,549 --> 00:49:50,880
discussion and god you could do a whole

1365
00:49:54,150 --> 00:49:52,559
podcast discussion on that that's one

1366
00:49:56,069 --> 00:49:54,160
for darren no doubt as well for one of

1367
00:49:58,069 --> 00:49:56,079
his one of his essays for two hours to

1368
00:49:58,950 --> 00:49:58,079
dive into but james what's your thoughts

1369
00:50:00,710 --> 00:49:58,960
on the

1370
00:50:02,870 --> 00:50:00,720
how do we get to that point where we

1371
00:50:05,030 --> 00:50:02,880
have experiences potentially reporting

1372
00:50:08,549 --> 00:50:05,040
abductions not just to the police but

1373
00:50:10,710 --> 00:50:08,559
having them taken seriously as well

1374
00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:10,720
yeah i think you know jay

1375
00:50:16,150 --> 00:50:13,520
was exactly right in what he said that

1376
00:50:19,589 --> 00:50:16,160
like the current infrastructure

1377
00:50:22,390 --> 00:50:19,599
uh i don't think is is even prepared for

1378
00:50:24,069 --> 00:50:22,400
for that uh you know unfortunately and

1379
00:50:26,230 --> 00:50:24,079
you know and that's part of the issue

1380
00:50:29,430 --> 00:50:26,240
with the lack of transparency over the

1381
00:50:31,109 --> 00:50:29,440
last 80 or 90 years with this issue

1382
00:50:33,430 --> 00:50:31,119
if if

1383
00:50:34,230 --> 00:50:33,440
you know there wasn't an embargo

1384
00:50:36,870 --> 00:50:34,240
uh

1385
00:50:37,910 --> 00:50:36,880
we may not you know these type of issues

1386
00:50:40,069 --> 00:50:37,920
may have

1387
00:50:42,230 --> 00:50:40,079
already you know had been resolved there

1388
00:50:43,750 --> 00:50:42,240
might have been an infrastructure for

1389
00:50:46,309 --> 00:50:43,760
people to

1390
00:50:48,950 --> 00:50:46,319
be taken seriously heard

1391
00:50:51,589 --> 00:50:48,960
and and not criticized or have to fear

1392
00:50:54,870 --> 00:50:51,599
for their job or like j said custody i

1393
00:50:56,870 --> 00:50:54,880
know when i had experiences

1394
00:50:59,270 --> 00:50:56,880
there's no way i would

1395
00:51:01,349 --> 00:50:59,280
i was going to report that to anybody

1396
00:51:02,630 --> 00:51:01,359
not even mufon in my opinion because i

1397
00:51:03,349 --> 00:51:02,640
was just

1398
00:51:05,190 --> 00:51:03,359
like

1399
00:51:07,750 --> 00:51:05,200
you know you're questioning yourself

1400
00:51:10,870 --> 00:51:07,760
hard enough you know forget about what

1401
00:51:13,990 --> 00:51:10,880
an institution who thinks that this

1402
00:51:16,790 --> 00:51:14,000
subject is is kind of for like uh

1403
00:51:19,670 --> 00:51:16,800
crazy people and in a sense and now that

1404
00:51:20,470 --> 00:51:19,680
stigma has has greatly diminished thanks

1405
00:51:22,790 --> 00:51:20,480
to

1406
00:51:25,349 --> 00:51:22,800
um you know dr gary nolan lozano

1407
00:51:26,630 --> 00:51:25,359
christopher mellon and and the dozens of

1408
00:51:27,670 --> 00:51:26,640
people who have been working in the

1409
00:51:29,990 --> 00:51:27,680
background

1410
00:51:32,470 --> 00:51:30,000
to make this a serious topic

1411
00:51:35,750 --> 00:51:33,670
actually

1412
00:51:38,309 --> 00:51:35,760
uh you know i have a friend uh people

1413
00:51:41,430 --> 00:51:38,319
might know him his name is daniel ingram

1414
00:51:42,710 --> 00:51:41,440
and he he's been working on a project

1415
00:51:44,470 --> 00:51:42,720
called um

1416
00:51:46,950 --> 00:51:44,480
the emergent phenomena research

1417
00:51:49,910 --> 00:51:46,960
consortium eprc

1418
00:51:53,349 --> 00:51:49,920
and it's geared more towards awakening

1419
00:51:56,150 --> 00:51:53,359
and meditative and peak experiences but

1420
00:51:58,950 --> 00:51:56,160
the kind of idea of contact with

1421
00:52:00,790 --> 00:51:58,960
non-human intelligence or entities is

1422
00:52:02,230 --> 00:52:00,800
something that actually happens to

1423
00:52:03,349 --> 00:52:02,240
people when they're just doing deep

1424
00:52:06,390 --> 00:52:03,359
meditation

1425
00:52:08,790 --> 00:52:06,400
or or you know what have you and what

1426
00:52:11,190 --> 00:52:08,800
he's trying to do with the eprc

1427
00:52:13,670 --> 00:52:11,200
is create infrastructure so when

1428
00:52:16,230 --> 00:52:13,680
somebody has even an awakening

1429
00:52:18,870 --> 00:52:16,240
experience or an experience like this

1430
00:52:21,589 --> 00:52:18,880
with a non-human intelligence you know

1431
00:52:24,150 --> 00:52:21,599
where you can actually go to somebody

1432
00:52:25,430 --> 00:52:24,160
who's experienced talk to them

1433
00:52:27,510 --> 00:52:25,440
um and

1434
00:52:29,349 --> 00:52:27,520
they're trying to do science with it as

1435
00:52:31,589 --> 00:52:29,359
well so not only is it going to be

1436
00:52:33,990 --> 00:52:31,599
documented and

1437
00:52:35,589 --> 00:52:34,000
they're gonna try to what you can do eeg

1438
00:52:38,150 --> 00:52:35,599
scans and different things to try to

1439
00:52:40,950 --> 00:52:38,160
track some of these experiences and see

1440
00:52:43,349 --> 00:52:40,960
what more you can find out um and and

1441
00:52:46,870 --> 00:52:43,359
better yet because he was an emergency

1442
00:52:49,510 --> 00:52:46,880
um room trauma doctor you know to get

1443
00:52:52,470 --> 00:52:49,520
this stuff not only taken seriously but

1444
00:52:55,829 --> 00:52:52,480
put into medical codes so your you can

1445
00:52:57,670 --> 00:52:55,839
build it on your insurance right and as

1446
00:53:00,309 --> 00:52:57,680
daniel said experiences like this are

1447
00:53:02,309 --> 00:53:00,319
scaling there's only more happening um

1448
00:53:03,190 --> 00:53:02,319
and as as this kind of

1449
00:53:04,630 --> 00:53:03,200
you know

1450
00:53:06,549 --> 00:53:04,640
because if

1451
00:53:07,430 --> 00:53:06,559
if you if you looked at everybody right

1452
00:53:10,790 --> 00:53:07,440
now

1453
00:53:12,150 --> 00:53:10,800
and like on a broad spectrum

1454
00:53:14,390 --> 00:53:12,160
you you'd have no idea who's an

1455
00:53:15,750 --> 00:53:14,400
experiencer because so many people keep

1456
00:53:17,670 --> 00:53:15,760
it to themselves they don't even tell

1457
00:53:19,990 --> 00:53:17,680
their friends or spouses

1458
00:53:21,829 --> 00:53:20,000
and i guarantee you

1459
00:53:23,670 --> 00:53:21,839
um as this

1460
00:53:26,309 --> 00:53:23,680
topic becomes more open and less

1461
00:53:28,549 --> 00:53:26,319
stigmatized and you know

1462
00:53:30,150 --> 00:53:28,559
basically officially acknowledged

1463
00:53:31,589 --> 00:53:30,160
you're you're gonna you're gonna hear

1464
00:53:32,870 --> 00:53:31,599
from a lot more people who've had

1465
00:53:34,710 --> 00:53:32,880
experiences

1466
00:53:36,790 --> 00:53:34,720
um so

1467
00:53:39,109 --> 00:53:36,800
again that the infrastructure's needed i

1468
00:53:40,829 --> 00:53:39,119
i really don't think it's there yet but

1469
00:53:44,069 --> 00:53:40,839
you need the infrastructure and you need

1470
00:53:46,950 --> 00:53:44,079
resources and you know thankfully i do

1471
00:53:49,349 --> 00:53:46,960
think that we are headed in a situation

1472
00:53:51,829 --> 00:53:49,359
where um this is going to be taken more

1473
00:53:53,109 --> 00:53:51,839
seriously and you are going to be able

1474
00:53:54,309 --> 00:53:53,119
to credibly

1475
00:53:57,190 --> 00:53:54,319
um

1476
00:53:58,150 --> 00:53:57,200
go to somebody to make a report whether

1477
00:54:00,710 --> 00:53:58,160
it be

1478
00:54:03,430 --> 00:54:00,720
um the police whether there's a special

1479
00:54:05,829 --> 00:54:03,440
um you know person within uh psychology

1480
00:54:07,670 --> 00:54:05,839
or medical field um where there's gonna

1481
00:54:10,390 --> 00:54:07,680
be a department for something like that

1482
00:54:12,790 --> 00:54:10,400
i'm not sure what it's gonna look like

1483
00:54:15,750 --> 00:54:12,800
but again i i think that's in time to

1484
00:54:17,990 --> 00:54:15,760
come again and as i said personally i've

1485
00:54:20,390 --> 00:54:18,000
never reported any of the experiences i

1486
00:54:23,670 --> 00:54:20,400
had would have because i i never wanted

1487
00:54:26,470 --> 00:54:23,680
to be criticized or looked at as crazy

1488
00:54:27,190 --> 00:54:26,480
you know unfortunately

1489
00:54:28,950 --> 00:54:27,200
and

1490
00:54:30,790 --> 00:54:28,960
we've discussed experiences at a very

1491
00:54:32,710 --> 00:54:30,800
base level but if people want to hear

1492
00:54:34,790 --> 00:54:32,720
more of of both your stories you you

1493
00:54:37,109 --> 00:54:34,800
discuss them both on your own podcasts i

1494
00:54:39,030 --> 00:54:37,119
add nauseam to i

1495
00:54:41,030 --> 00:54:39,040
interviewed both of you one to one and

1496
00:54:42,630 --> 00:54:41,040
you laid out things wonderfully on those

1497
00:54:44,309 --> 00:54:42,640
and people i would encourage to go back

1498
00:54:46,150 --> 00:54:44,319
and listen to those so we're not

1499
00:54:48,230 --> 00:54:46,160
treading over over that ground and i've

1500
00:54:50,069 --> 00:54:48,240
got a few questions to finish up with

1501
00:54:53,109 --> 00:54:50,079
the first one is from from that friend

1502
00:54:54,549 --> 00:54:53,119
of mine sean and this comes from a place

1503
00:54:56,390 --> 00:54:54,559
of and i thought it'd be nice to ask a

1504
00:54:58,069 --> 00:54:56,400
question from a listener who doesn't

1505
00:55:00,390 --> 00:54:58,079
really have an interest in ufos and when

1506
00:55:03,430 --> 00:55:00,400
i had the conversation about that i said

1507
00:55:05,190 --> 00:55:03,440
what would you ask to to agents who

1508
00:55:07,109 --> 00:55:05,200
who say they have a story to tell and

1509
00:55:09,910 --> 00:55:07,119
have had experiences and i didn't even

1510
00:55:11,589 --> 00:55:09,920
go into the detail of your experiences

1511
00:55:13,990 --> 00:55:11,599
and they looked and i was like

1512
00:55:15,270 --> 00:55:14,000
i'd like to know and he was like really

1513
00:55:16,870 --> 00:55:15,280
honestly

1514
00:55:18,950 --> 00:55:16,880
how do you

1515
00:55:20,710 --> 00:55:18,960
not necessarily convince others but how

1516
00:55:23,190 --> 00:55:20,720
do you convince yourself

1517
00:55:25,109 --> 00:55:23,200
that these aren't really vivid dreams

1518
00:55:26,069 --> 00:55:25,119
that people have and he used the example

1519
00:55:27,750 --> 00:55:26,079
of

1520
00:55:29,430 --> 00:55:27,760
having such a vivid dream one night he

1521
00:55:31,510 --> 00:55:29,440
thought he had lost money in his home

1522
00:55:32,870 --> 00:55:31,520
but remembered where it was and he woke

1523
00:55:34,549 --> 00:55:32,880
up the next day and actually went to

1524
00:55:36,230 --> 00:55:34,559
check and he was oh no i haven't the

1525
00:55:38,390 --> 00:55:36,240
money's not there

1526
00:55:41,270 --> 00:55:38,400
and he wants to know and i think it's a

1527
00:55:43,190 --> 00:55:41,280
fair question what is it individually

1528
00:55:45,510 --> 00:55:43,200
you can say to yourself this happened to

1529
00:55:48,789 --> 00:55:45,520
me and this is why i know this was this

1530
00:55:50,870 --> 00:55:48,799
was a real event

1531
00:55:53,270 --> 00:55:50,880
yeah so that's um

1532
00:55:54,309 --> 00:55:53,280
that that is a great question and you

1533
00:55:56,309 --> 00:55:54,319
know it's going to be different for

1534
00:55:58,390 --> 00:55:56,319
everybody in some regard i mean you do

1535
00:56:00,150 --> 00:55:58,400
you want to be self-critical but

1536
00:56:02,390 --> 00:56:00,160
you know a lot of people who are

1537
00:56:04,870 --> 00:56:02,400
experiencers or even people who have a

1538
00:56:08,390 --> 00:56:04,880
sighting tend to doubt themselves

1539
00:56:09,390 --> 00:56:08,400
um almost so unconsciously like they

1540
00:56:10,710 --> 00:56:09,400
they want to

1541
00:56:13,190 --> 00:56:10,720
[Music]

1542
00:56:15,270 --> 00:56:13,200
you know kind of not pretend it never

1543
00:56:17,430 --> 00:56:15,280
happened but it's you know what kind of

1544
00:56:19,829 --> 00:56:17,440
trouble that may that put you in in a

1545
00:56:21,990 --> 00:56:19,839
sense of like now you have to explain

1546
00:56:22,789 --> 00:56:22,000
this to somebody or something

1547
00:56:25,510 --> 00:56:22,799
um

1548
00:56:27,829 --> 00:56:25,520
and and kind of like if you can't prove

1549
00:56:30,710 --> 00:56:27,839
it it's really hard and for a lot of

1550
00:56:32,630 --> 00:56:30,720
experiences it takes some years to come

1551
00:56:35,109 --> 00:56:32,640
out and talk openly or even with

1552
00:56:36,950 --> 00:56:35,119
somebody close to them about an

1553
00:56:39,349 --> 00:56:36,960
experience like this you know

1554
00:56:41,190 --> 00:56:39,359
fortunately i i would say i guess for

1555
00:56:43,990 --> 00:56:41,200
for people like me and jay was we've

1556
00:56:45,430 --> 00:56:44,000
we've had experiences where other people

1557
00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:45,440
were involved

1558
00:56:48,870 --> 00:56:47,760
um you know so for me

1559
00:56:50,950 --> 00:56:48,880
you know

1560
00:56:52,710 --> 00:56:50,960
that that is a blessing i guess because

1561
00:56:55,510 --> 00:56:52,720
my you know my family were witness to

1562
00:56:58,630 --> 00:56:55,520
some you know pretty incredible events

1563
00:56:59,990 --> 00:56:58,640
um but if you don't have that

1564
00:57:01,589 --> 00:57:00,000
uh

1565
00:57:03,670 --> 00:57:01,599
you have to have the courage to do it if

1566
00:57:05,510 --> 00:57:03,680
you're gonna talk about it and

1567
00:57:07,109 --> 00:57:05,520
yes you do have to be

1568
00:57:08,549 --> 00:57:07,119
self-critical

1569
00:57:10,789 --> 00:57:08,559
uh to it

1570
00:57:13,349 --> 00:57:10,799
to an extent and i would say you know

1571
00:57:14,230 --> 00:57:13,359
use the process of elimination

1572
00:57:16,390 --> 00:57:14,240
um

1573
00:57:18,069 --> 00:57:16,400
and and see are are there things that

1574
00:57:20,309 --> 00:57:18,079
that could kind of

1575
00:57:22,069 --> 00:57:20,319
explain what had happened

1576
00:57:25,349 --> 00:57:22,079
um and

1577
00:57:26,390 --> 00:57:25,359
just take note of it you know because

1578
00:57:28,870 --> 00:57:26,400
there's

1579
00:57:31,910 --> 00:57:28,880
it could be so difficult to even for

1580
00:57:35,030 --> 00:57:31,920
yourself to say this happened and come

1581
00:57:36,950 --> 00:57:35,040
to grips with that right because

1582
00:57:39,030 --> 00:57:36,960
once once you

1583
00:57:40,630 --> 00:57:39,040
make that step and even admit to

1584
00:57:41,750 --> 00:57:40,640
yourself that this happened this

1585
00:57:43,589 --> 00:57:41,760
happened to me

1586
00:57:45,829 --> 00:57:43,599
it it changes everything because there's

1587
00:57:48,870 --> 00:57:45,839
no going back at that point

1588
00:57:51,190 --> 00:57:48,880
so uh what do you think jay

1589
00:57:54,710 --> 00:57:51,200
yeah i would i would tend to agree i i

1590
00:57:57,589 --> 00:57:54,720
was really blessed in many ways that

1591
00:57:58,470 --> 00:57:57,599
i've had many instances

1592
00:58:00,630 --> 00:57:58,480
where

1593
00:58:03,990 --> 00:58:00,640
other people were around me

1594
00:58:05,910 --> 00:58:04,000
when and anomalous experiences happened

1595
00:58:08,950 --> 00:58:05,920
in different modalities

1596
00:58:11,750 --> 00:58:08,960
as people that regularly listen to that

1597
00:58:14,150 --> 00:58:11,760
ufo podcast would know um i grew up in a

1598
00:58:17,430 --> 00:58:14,160
haunted wood is often referred to as a

1599
00:58:20,789 --> 00:58:17,440
haunted house i've had interactions with

1600
00:58:22,230 --> 00:58:20,799
non-human entities and thankfully many

1601
00:58:24,789 --> 00:58:22,240
of these situations happened around

1602
00:58:25,589 --> 00:58:24,799
other people most people it's not like

1603
00:58:26,390 --> 00:58:25,599
that

1604
00:58:28,470 --> 00:58:26,400
and

1605
00:58:31,270 --> 00:58:28,480
you know one of the reasons why people

1606
00:58:33,990 --> 00:58:31,280
even know who i am is that behind the

1607
00:58:35,510 --> 00:58:34,000
scenes i was a confidential source

1608
00:58:37,750 --> 00:58:35,520
about these things and one of the

1609
00:58:40,390 --> 00:58:37,760
reasons people listen to me to begin

1610
00:58:42,789 --> 00:58:40,400
with is because i had

1611
00:58:45,270 --> 00:58:42,799
um many many people that were able to

1612
00:58:48,150 --> 00:58:45,280
back me up about that didn't even know

1613
00:58:50,870 --> 00:58:48,160
each other about various situations and

1614
00:58:53,349 --> 00:58:50,880
so you know fo that perks up that tends

1615
00:58:54,870 --> 00:58:53,359
to perk up people's ears and so that's

1616
00:58:56,950 --> 00:58:54,880
for example why

1617
00:58:58,710 --> 00:58:56,960
uh ralph one of the reasons why ralph

1618
00:59:00,549 --> 00:58:58,720
blumenthal wrote about me last year in

1619
00:59:02,870 --> 00:59:00,559
that debrief article that was originally

1620
00:59:05,670 --> 00:59:02,880
slated for the new york times now you

1621
00:59:09,990 --> 00:59:05,680
know a lot of people don't have that

1622
00:59:13,589 --> 00:59:11,670
they don't have that to go off of you

1623
00:59:15,510 --> 00:59:13,599
know they might have a situation that

1624
00:59:19,750 --> 00:59:15,520
only lasts like two minutes of their

1625
00:59:22,069 --> 00:59:19,760
life and it's by themselves and

1626
00:59:25,030 --> 00:59:22,079
nobody else was around they only had

1627
00:59:28,870 --> 00:59:25,040
their own experience and it shifts their

1628
00:59:30,710 --> 00:59:28,880
framework for the the nature of reality

1629
00:59:33,270 --> 00:59:30,720
for many years to come

1630
00:59:35,190 --> 00:59:33,280
and then what do they do with that and

1631
00:59:37,910 --> 00:59:35,200
you know i think that that's a bigger

1632
00:59:40,069 --> 00:59:37,920
question in and of itself which i think

1633
00:59:42,069 --> 00:59:40,079
addresses what your friend was coming at

1634
00:59:44,870 --> 00:59:42,079
it with it's like what do you do with

1635
00:59:47,109 --> 00:59:44,880
that how do you deal with that and i

1636
00:59:49,670 --> 00:59:47,119
think to a large degree

1637
00:59:51,430 --> 00:59:49,680
we only have our senses you know we have

1638
00:59:53,670 --> 00:59:51,440
our senses to work with and we do the

1639
00:59:55,670 --> 00:59:53,680
best we can with the senses that we have

1640
00:59:58,470 --> 00:59:55,680
and we could even have

1641
01:00:00,789 --> 00:59:58,480
a incredibly impactful

1642
01:00:03,030 --> 01:00:00,799
dream right like you were talking about

1643
01:00:04,069 --> 01:00:03,040
with your friends and that can actually

1644
01:00:06,870 --> 01:00:04,079
affect

1645
01:00:08,069 --> 01:00:06,880
how you process and how you think about

1646
01:00:09,670 --> 01:00:08,079
your life

1647
01:00:12,069 --> 01:00:09,680
and in fact a lot of people think that

1648
01:00:13,510 --> 01:00:12,079
that's what dreams are for right we have

1649
01:00:16,230 --> 01:00:13,520
these dreams so that we can kind of

1650
01:00:18,470 --> 01:00:16,240
process and message things to ourselves

1651
01:00:19,349 --> 01:00:18,480
differently on different levels right

1652
01:00:21,510 --> 01:00:19,359
and so

1653
01:00:23,589 --> 01:00:21,520
one thing that i would suggest is that

1654
01:00:26,710 --> 01:00:23,599
you know regardless of whether you can

1655
01:00:29,510 --> 01:00:26,720
find a fundamental objective truth to to

1656
01:00:32,150 --> 01:00:29,520
your own personal experience

1657
01:00:34,630 --> 01:00:32,160
try to take in that that that experience

1658
01:00:37,109 --> 01:00:34,640
happened to you in a sensory way and

1659
01:00:39,510 --> 01:00:37,119
think about how it's impacted you

1660
01:00:42,390 --> 01:00:39,520
and think about like how do you process

1661
01:00:44,549 --> 01:00:42,400
that how do we retroactively kind of

1662
01:00:47,270 --> 01:00:44,559
make

1663
01:00:49,589 --> 01:00:47,280
invest in processing and integrating

1664
01:00:50,789 --> 01:00:49,599
that into what your emotional

1665
01:00:52,230 --> 01:00:50,799
development

1666
01:00:53,510 --> 01:00:52,240
is going to be like through the rest of

1667
01:00:55,430 --> 01:00:53,520
your life and how you're going to treat

1668
01:00:57,589 --> 01:00:55,440
other people about that and how are you

1669
01:00:58,870 --> 01:00:57,599
going to treat yourself about it because

1670
01:01:01,510 --> 01:00:58,880
a lot of times people have like

1671
01:01:03,670 --> 01:01:01,520
self-worth issues like am i going crazy

1672
01:01:05,109 --> 01:01:03,680
like this shouldn't have happened to me

1673
01:01:07,750 --> 01:01:05,119
you know there's a lot of kind of

1674
01:01:09,270 --> 01:01:07,760
self-hatred that can happen honestly

1675
01:01:12,150 --> 01:01:09,280
with people when they're dealing with

1676
01:01:15,349 --> 01:01:12,160
these these subjects and so as much as

1677
01:01:16,870 --> 01:01:15,359
it becomes about to a lot of people in

1678
01:01:18,549 --> 01:01:16,880
the kind of general

1679
01:01:20,390 --> 01:01:18,559
popular culture aspect people think

1680
01:01:21,670 --> 01:01:20,400
about like well how can they prove that

1681
01:01:22,630 --> 01:01:21,680
to me

1682
01:01:24,390 --> 01:01:22,640
you know

1683
01:01:25,990 --> 01:01:24,400
such a bigger thing is like how do you

1684
01:01:28,309 --> 01:01:26,000
prove that to yourself

1685
01:01:30,470 --> 01:01:28,319
and i think the biggest thing is like

1686
01:01:32,230 --> 01:01:30,480
well what did that how did that impact

1687
01:01:33,829 --> 01:01:32,240
you and

1688
01:01:34,950 --> 01:01:33,839
what can you take from that to move

1689
01:01:36,789 --> 01:01:34,960
forward

1690
01:01:38,710 --> 01:01:36,799
you know some good advice there for

1691
01:01:39,910 --> 01:01:38,720
people to who may want to share their

1692
01:01:41,430 --> 01:01:39,920
stories and obviously there's the

1693
01:01:43,109 --> 01:01:41,440
experiencer group the links will be in

1694
01:01:45,510 --> 01:01:43,119
the description if folks want to reach

1695
01:01:47,270 --> 01:01:45,520
out and just talk to someone regularly i

1696
01:01:48,549 --> 01:01:47,280
get contacted by folks who say they

1697
01:01:50,390 --> 01:01:48,559
don't want to be on the podcast they

1698
01:01:52,069 --> 01:01:50,400
don't want their names read out but i've

1699
01:01:53,670 --> 01:01:52,079
had an experience and i've never told

1700
01:01:55,430 --> 01:01:53,680
anyone or i've seen something and i

1701
01:01:57,109 --> 01:01:55,440
don't know what it is and i think that's

1702
01:01:59,109 --> 01:01:57,119
just a nice first step to reach out to

1703
01:02:00,950 --> 01:01:59,119
someone you trust and and just have that

1704
01:02:02,950 --> 01:02:00,960
conversation and people like yourselves

1705
01:02:04,230 --> 01:02:02,960
are there as well last couple of

1706
01:02:06,150 --> 01:02:04,240
questions with the time i've got

1707
01:02:07,829 --> 01:02:06,160
remaining keeping on that theme of

1708
01:02:10,150 --> 01:02:07,839
entities and you've discussed this both

1709
01:02:12,309 --> 01:02:10,160
before as well from barry he wants to

1710
01:02:15,190 --> 01:02:12,319
know when you've had interactions with

1711
01:02:17,349 --> 01:02:15,200
various entities like praying mantids

1712
01:02:19,990 --> 01:02:17,359
have you ever got a different vibe off

1713
01:02:25,349 --> 01:02:20,000
of different types of entities i.e graze

1714
01:02:29,589 --> 01:02:27,109
for me i haven't had a personal

1715
01:02:31,430 --> 01:02:29,599
interaction with the mantids but

1716
01:02:32,870 --> 01:02:31,440
definitely a spectrum of phenomena and i

1717
01:02:34,710 --> 01:02:32,880
will say for me

1718
01:02:36,549 --> 01:02:34,720
a million percent yes

1719
01:02:37,510 --> 01:02:36,559
there were different kinds of encounters

1720
01:02:40,230 --> 01:02:37,520
i had

1721
01:02:42,870 --> 01:02:40,240
and it's it seemed obvious

1722
01:02:44,950 --> 01:02:42,880
um that it was a different intelligence

1723
01:02:47,910 --> 01:02:44,960
and i know this is this is a huge

1724
01:02:50,150 --> 01:02:47,920
question right is it one phenomenon

1725
01:02:51,990 --> 01:02:50,160
posing as several phenomena

1726
01:02:53,990 --> 01:02:52,000
uh and you know jacques vallee's

1727
01:02:56,309 --> 01:02:54,000
passport to magonia has that you know

1728
01:02:59,510 --> 01:02:56,319
the imagery that kind of demonstrates

1729
01:03:01,670 --> 01:02:59,520
this kind of meta meta intelligence or

1730
01:03:04,470 --> 01:03:01,680
super intelligence that's working

1731
01:03:06,470 --> 01:03:04,480
through a myriad of of kind of

1732
01:03:07,270 --> 01:03:06,480
masks so to speak

1733
01:03:08,150 --> 01:03:07,280
um

1734
01:03:10,069 --> 01:03:08,160
and

1735
01:03:12,150 --> 01:03:10,079
you know i don't i don't know what the

1736
01:03:13,030 --> 01:03:12,160
ultimate answer is to that

1737
01:03:14,390 --> 01:03:13,040
but

1738
01:03:16,309 --> 01:03:14,400
personally

1739
01:03:19,589 --> 01:03:16,319
i've when i've had different

1740
01:03:20,870 --> 01:03:19,599
interactions what with even what looked

1741
01:03:24,309 --> 01:03:20,880
differently

1742
01:03:27,750 --> 01:03:24,319
the the feel was was very distinct

1743
01:03:29,109 --> 01:03:27,760
definitely a million percent for me yes

1744
01:03:31,670 --> 01:03:29,119
nj

1745
01:03:35,270 --> 01:03:31,680
yeah i would tend to i would i would

1746
01:03:36,950 --> 01:03:35,280
absolutely agree um different entities

1747
01:03:39,589 --> 01:03:36,960
tend to communicate differently they

1748
01:03:41,990 --> 01:03:39,599
tend to interact differently and

1749
01:03:44,069 --> 01:03:42,000
um i've seen that i i've heard many

1750
01:03:45,190 --> 01:03:44,079
reports of others that way but if we're

1751
01:03:47,270 --> 01:03:45,200
talking about

1752
01:03:49,750 --> 01:03:47,280
praying mantis like beings or grace yeah

1753
01:03:51,510 --> 01:03:49,760
they communicate very differently and

1754
01:03:53,910 --> 01:03:51,520
you know um

1755
01:03:56,549 --> 01:03:53,920
it's a challenging thing to convey to

1756
01:03:58,309 --> 01:03:56,559
the general audience but you know one

1757
01:03:59,589 --> 01:03:58,319
thing is about kind of cadence and

1758
01:04:00,710 --> 01:03:59,599
language

1759
01:04:01,990 --> 01:04:00,720
and

1760
01:04:03,190 --> 01:04:02,000
uh

1761
01:04:05,430 --> 01:04:03,200
there are

1762
01:04:06,870 --> 01:04:05,440
differences in how

1763
01:04:09,029 --> 01:04:06,880
uh

1764
01:04:10,069 --> 01:04:09,039
even telepathic communication can come

1765
01:04:10,829 --> 01:04:10,079
across

1766
01:04:15,670 --> 01:04:10,839
and

1767
01:04:17,910 --> 01:04:15,680
what is often the case is that

1768
01:04:21,589 --> 01:04:17,920
gray beings tend to communicate in kind

1769
01:04:24,630 --> 01:04:21,599
of a line by line way that's almost

1770
01:04:25,430 --> 01:04:24,640
uh like a text message almost like

1771
01:04:26,870 --> 01:04:25,440
um

1772
01:04:28,390 --> 01:04:26,880
just

1773
01:04:31,109 --> 01:04:28,400
verbiage coming in

1774
01:04:32,069 --> 01:04:31,119
in a very almost kind of computer-like

1775
01:04:33,430 --> 01:04:32,079
way

1776
01:04:35,829 --> 01:04:33,440
and

1777
01:04:38,309 --> 01:04:35,839
say mantis beings you know from reports

1778
01:04:40,069 --> 01:04:38,319
and from personal experience

1779
01:04:43,589 --> 01:04:40,079
we're more talking about these kind of

1780
01:04:44,710 --> 01:04:43,599
like nests of of visual imagery and

1781
01:04:47,029 --> 01:04:44,720
words

1782
01:04:48,950 --> 01:04:47,039
and they tend to unfold in the mind in a

1783
01:04:50,710 --> 01:04:48,960
really really interesting way it's

1784
01:04:52,630 --> 01:04:50,720
almost more like a it's more like a

1785
01:04:54,390 --> 01:04:52,640
series of haikus

1786
01:04:56,309 --> 01:04:54,400
it's almost as if you're getting a haiku

1787
01:04:57,270 --> 01:04:56,319
in your mind that's mixed with

1788
01:04:59,349 --> 01:04:57,280
um

1789
01:05:02,710 --> 01:04:59,359
a gif or two so you might see like a

1790
01:05:05,109 --> 01:05:02,720
physical action in your mind's eye as

1791
01:05:07,829 --> 01:05:05,119
well as a couple lines of text

1792
01:05:09,670 --> 01:05:07,839
most of the articles are taken out um

1793
01:05:12,549 --> 01:05:09,680
you know those kinds of beings don't use

1794
01:05:15,109 --> 01:05:12,559
words like z and or things like that

1795
01:05:18,470 --> 01:05:15,119
you're talking you're they're using more

1796
01:05:21,029 --> 01:05:18,480
like verbs and nouns and adjectives sure

1797
01:05:23,109 --> 01:05:21,039
mixed with visuals to to communicate

1798
01:05:25,510 --> 01:05:23,119
with us anyway and

1799
01:05:27,589 --> 01:05:25,520
um it's fascinating and

1800
01:05:29,589 --> 01:05:27,599
towards james point there's

1801
01:05:31,510 --> 01:05:29,599
there's that there's the idea like

1802
01:05:33,670 --> 01:05:31,520
chocolate where you know how many of

1803
01:05:34,789 --> 01:05:33,680
these beings could possibly

1804
01:05:39,430 --> 01:05:34,799
be

1805
01:05:41,589 --> 01:05:39,440
for the for you know the sake of

1806
01:05:43,510 --> 01:05:41,599
deception or for the sake of making us

1807
01:05:46,710 --> 01:05:43,520
more comfortable or whatever the case

1808
01:05:48,630 --> 01:05:46,720
may be right and at the same time

1809
01:05:50,069 --> 01:05:48,640
when somebody encounters these things

1810
01:05:51,829 --> 01:05:50,079
it's almost like if you were to

1811
01:05:54,230 --> 01:05:51,839
encounter a cat

1812
01:05:56,710 --> 01:05:54,240
and then you were to encounter a child

1813
01:05:58,549 --> 01:05:56,720
and then you were to encounter a dog

1814
01:06:00,549 --> 01:05:58,559
and you're like dave all three of those

1815
01:06:02,950 --> 01:06:00,559
interacted with me very very differently

1816
01:06:04,549 --> 01:06:02,960
and they clearly could not have

1817
01:06:08,549 --> 01:06:04,559
uh uh

1818
01:06:09,670 --> 01:06:08,559
uh costumed as another of those right

1819
01:06:11,270 --> 01:06:09,680
you know

1820
01:06:13,270 --> 01:06:11,280
a kid can't

1821
01:06:15,670 --> 01:06:13,280
impersonate a dog very well you know

1822
01:06:17,990 --> 01:06:15,680
they i mean they can it'll be cute but

1823
01:06:21,190 --> 01:06:18,000
will it be accurate probably not yeah

1824
01:06:23,270 --> 01:06:21,200
right and and so along similar lines you

1825
01:06:24,789 --> 01:06:23,280
know is it possible that that some of

1826
01:06:28,230 --> 01:06:24,799
those beings could masquerade as each

1827
01:06:30,390 --> 01:06:28,240
other absolutely and at the same time

1828
01:06:33,029 --> 01:06:30,400
it would almost be as if

1829
01:06:36,870 --> 01:06:33,039
you know james or i were to be

1830
01:06:39,910 --> 01:06:36,880
to act not only as if we were

1831
01:06:41,750 --> 01:06:39,920
fluid chinese speakers but we were also

1832
01:06:42,549 --> 01:06:41,760
kind of speaking in

1833
01:06:52,710 --> 01:06:42,559
a

1834
01:06:54,630 --> 01:06:52,720
the kind of

1835
01:06:57,510 --> 01:06:54,640
differentiation that can happen here

1836
01:07:00,069 --> 01:06:57,520
you're you're clearly looking at a mind

1837
01:07:01,990 --> 01:07:00,079
that maps things quite differently in

1838
01:07:03,589 --> 01:07:02,000
many of these cases

1839
01:07:07,029 --> 01:07:03,599
and our final question from long-time

1840
01:07:08,870 --> 01:07:07,039
contributor dave smithers hi to dave

1841
01:07:11,190 --> 01:07:08,880
do james and jay think we're seeing a

1842
01:07:13,349 --> 01:07:11,200
bigger emphasis on the experience or

1843
01:07:15,430 --> 01:07:13,359
element of the phenomenon lately

1844
01:07:17,190 --> 01:07:15,440
particularly as more people like gary

1845
01:07:18,630 --> 01:07:17,200
nolan are openly discussing their

1846
01:07:20,230 --> 01:07:18,640
experiences

1847
01:07:22,150 --> 01:07:20,240
jay will kick off with you then finish

1848
01:07:22,950 --> 01:07:22,160
with james

1849
01:07:25,990 --> 01:07:22,960
um

1850
01:07:28,069 --> 01:07:26,000
you know i think that experiencers

1851
01:07:30,150 --> 01:07:28,079
when people talk about our experiences

1852
01:07:31,349 --> 01:07:30,160
coming in to more play

1853
01:07:34,710 --> 01:07:31,359
i think

1854
01:07:37,829 --> 01:07:34,720
another way to frame that is are people

1855
01:07:40,069 --> 01:07:37,839
um treating them with with the respect

1856
01:07:44,470 --> 01:07:40,079
they deserve or the kind of

1857
01:07:46,870 --> 01:07:44,480
or are they looking at them in a more

1858
01:07:48,950 --> 01:07:46,880
objective and understanding framework

1859
01:07:51,029 --> 01:07:48,960
because the reality is is that

1860
01:07:53,589 --> 01:07:51,039
experiencers are the absolute base of

1861
01:07:55,670 --> 01:07:53,599
this whole field and my

1862
01:07:57,750 --> 01:07:55,680
from my perspective and i think on a

1863
01:07:59,349 --> 01:07:57,760
relatively objective framework you don't

1864
01:08:00,870 --> 01:07:59,359
have a field of ufology if you don't

1865
01:08:02,710 --> 01:08:00,880
have experiencers

1866
01:08:04,870 --> 01:08:02,720
you know what you have is a series of

1867
01:08:06,870 --> 01:08:04,880
reports and people trying to map that

1868
01:08:08,789 --> 01:08:06,880
out and put something together even if

1869
01:08:10,549 --> 01:08:08,799
you're talking about david david fravor

1870
01:08:12,470 --> 01:08:10,559
or whoever else that's coming at things

1871
01:08:14,549 --> 01:08:12,480
from a governmental or military

1872
01:08:17,590 --> 01:08:14,559
framework you're still eventually

1873
01:08:18,390 --> 01:08:17,600
getting to a person that's in some form

1874
01:08:20,550 --> 01:08:18,400
of

1875
01:08:22,709 --> 01:08:20,560
authority or non-authority

1876
01:08:24,070 --> 01:08:22,719
uh you're dealing with a civilian or

1877
01:08:26,709 --> 01:08:24,080
you're dealing with somebody that's not

1878
01:08:29,349 --> 01:08:26,719
a civilian that that had a situation and

1879
01:08:31,430 --> 01:08:29,359
then they decided to write about it or

1880
01:08:32,950 --> 01:08:31,440
talk about it in whatever way they did

1881
01:08:34,229 --> 01:08:32,960
and if it wasn't for those people there

1882
01:08:35,590 --> 01:08:34,239
would be nothing

1883
01:08:36,789 --> 01:08:35,600
you know there would be absolutely

1884
01:08:38,470 --> 01:08:36,799
nothing in terms of like the

1885
01:08:41,269 --> 01:08:38,480
conversations that we're having because

1886
01:08:43,590 --> 01:08:41,279
as skeptics of the community often state

1887
01:08:47,189 --> 01:08:43,600
we don't have enough physical proof

1888
01:08:50,309 --> 01:08:47,199
so it comes down to so much within the

1889
01:08:51,269 --> 01:08:50,319
the what we have from experiencer cases

1890
01:08:54,309 --> 01:08:51,279
and so

1891
01:08:56,709 --> 01:08:54,319
when when i hear are we listening to the

1892
01:08:59,269 --> 01:08:56,719
experiences more i hope so

1893
01:09:01,829 --> 01:08:59,279
and i hear i hope that like john keel

1894
01:09:04,309 --> 01:09:01,839
hoped say 50 years ago

1895
01:09:06,709 --> 01:09:04,319
that what we're hearing is an unedited

1896
01:09:09,189 --> 01:09:06,719
version of what those experiencers had

1897
01:09:10,950 --> 01:09:09,199
because for too long researchers would

1898
01:09:13,030 --> 01:09:10,960
shave off details that they found

1899
01:09:14,470 --> 01:09:13,040
inconvenient or thought would be hard to

1900
01:09:17,110 --> 01:09:14,480
believe

1901
01:09:19,349 --> 01:09:17,120
and you know that went back so far that

1902
01:09:21,590 --> 01:09:19,359
you know we see drawings of gray aliens

1903
01:09:23,990 --> 01:09:21,600
that are wearing like belts and boots

1904
01:09:25,910 --> 01:09:24,000
and stuff like that from the early days

1905
01:09:27,590 --> 01:09:25,920
and then we hear more accounts and

1906
01:09:30,229 --> 01:09:27,600
they're like oh they usually just kind

1907
01:09:32,870 --> 01:09:30,239
of seem like they're naked

1908
01:09:34,789 --> 01:09:32,880
but even at a certain time that was hard

1909
01:09:36,870 --> 01:09:34,799
to believe that you'd see a being that

1910
01:09:38,870 --> 01:09:36,880
was that different coming out of a craft

1911
01:09:42,309 --> 01:09:38,880
and they were just you know bald ass

1912
01:09:44,789 --> 01:09:42,319
naked right or they were they were naked

1913
01:09:46,550 --> 01:09:44,799
and and that that was so hard to believe

1914
01:09:49,910 --> 01:09:46,560
that people would shift their own

1915
01:09:51,269 --> 01:09:49,920
narrative to accommodate the situation

1916
01:09:53,030 --> 01:09:51,279
where some of these beings would be

1917
01:09:54,950 --> 01:09:53,040
wearing clothes or different clothes and

1918
01:09:57,510 --> 01:09:54,960
things like that and so

1919
01:10:00,630 --> 01:09:57,520
i think from my perspective what i want

1920
01:10:01,910 --> 01:10:00,640
to hear more is the unedited accounts

1921
01:10:03,750 --> 01:10:01,920
and i would like to hear more

1922
01:10:05,590 --> 01:10:03,760
researchers

1923
01:10:08,390 --> 01:10:05,600
finding those points where they start to

1924
01:10:11,030 --> 01:10:08,400
feel uncomfortable because those details

1925
01:10:13,030 --> 01:10:11,040
don't necessarily map out or match up

1926
01:10:14,070 --> 01:10:13,040
with what they think is supposed to be

1927
01:10:16,950 --> 01:10:14,080
happening

1928
01:10:19,030 --> 01:10:16,960
and then lead with that lead into the

1929
01:10:21,110 --> 01:10:19,040
areas of the inconvenient truths because

1930
01:10:23,270 --> 01:10:21,120
people like hal put off will tell us

1931
01:10:26,229 --> 01:10:23,280
over and over and over again

1932
01:10:28,390 --> 01:10:26,239
that the cases that don't make sense and

1933
01:10:30,470 --> 01:10:28,400
the cases that have the strangest

1934
01:10:31,910 --> 01:10:30,480
aspects to try to put together

1935
01:10:34,070 --> 01:10:31,920
are often the ones that we can learn

1936
01:10:35,830 --> 01:10:34,080
from the most

1937
01:10:39,590 --> 01:10:35,840
james

1938
01:10:41,590 --> 01:10:39,600
yeah and you know kind of to magnetize

1939
01:10:43,669 --> 01:10:41,600
what what jay is saying about you know

1940
01:10:46,709 --> 01:10:43,679
experiencers

1941
01:10:49,030 --> 01:10:46,719
and and you know the study of ufos

1942
01:10:51,990 --> 01:10:49,040
is that you know even if somebody has a

1943
01:10:54,229 --> 01:10:52,000
sighting that's that is an experience of

1944
01:10:57,189 --> 01:10:54,239
of sorts you know whether they got a

1945
01:10:59,110 --> 01:10:57,199
telepathic message or download or not

1946
01:11:01,430 --> 01:10:59,120
you know that seeing that object and

1947
01:11:03,430 --> 01:11:01,440
knowing that it's not something or or

1948
01:11:05,510 --> 01:11:03,440
even thinking it's not something

1949
01:11:07,510 --> 01:11:05,520
you know from here you know has a huge

1950
01:11:10,390 --> 01:11:07,520
impact so you know i just want to kind

1951
01:11:12,550 --> 01:11:10,400
of state that from the get-go but i

1952
01:11:13,590 --> 01:11:12,560
think what we're seeing now

1953
01:11:16,470 --> 01:11:13,600
um

1954
01:11:18,950 --> 01:11:16,480
is you know i don't think it was like

1955
01:11:21,110 --> 01:11:18,960
this was like necessarily planned and

1956
01:11:23,510 --> 01:11:21,120
phased in so to speak yeah so i think

1957
01:11:24,709 --> 01:11:23,520
what we're seeing here is like an

1958
01:11:27,350 --> 01:11:24,719
organic

1959
01:11:28,790 --> 01:11:27,360
blossoming of of the conversation right

1960
01:11:29,990 --> 01:11:28,800
now in regards to everything that's

1961
01:11:31,830 --> 01:11:30,000
going on

1962
01:11:34,310 --> 01:11:31,840
where you know you have people like jim

1963
01:11:35,830 --> 01:11:34,320
semivan who is really high up in the cia

1964
01:11:38,870 --> 01:11:35,840
for many years

1965
01:11:41,750 --> 01:11:38,880
openly talking about his experiences

1966
01:11:44,390 --> 01:11:41,760
and you know people like uh dr gary

1967
01:11:46,390 --> 01:11:44,400
nolan you know again somebody with who

1968
01:11:47,990 --> 01:11:46,400
who's a nobel nominee

1969
01:11:49,830 --> 01:11:48,000
uh and uh you know

1970
01:11:52,790 --> 01:11:49,840
brilliant scientists

1971
01:11:55,590 --> 01:11:52,800
coming out as an experiencer and sharing

1972
01:11:58,390 --> 01:11:55,600
some of the details of his experiences

1973
01:12:00,310 --> 01:11:58,400
and i think that it's it's it's

1974
01:12:01,110 --> 01:12:00,320
occurring now because the momentum is

1975
01:12:03,590 --> 01:12:01,120
there

1976
01:12:05,910 --> 01:12:03,600
um you know the de-stigma you know it's

1977
01:12:08,390 --> 01:12:05,920
destigmatized to the extent

1978
01:12:10,470 --> 01:12:08,400
where people feel more comfortable

1979
01:12:12,070 --> 01:12:10,480
and encouraged to maybe share some of

1980
01:12:14,950 --> 01:12:12,080
their experiences

1981
01:12:16,709 --> 01:12:14,960
so i do think that it is

1982
01:12:18,070 --> 01:12:16,719
again a natural evolution of the

1983
01:12:20,470 --> 01:12:18,080
conversation

1984
01:12:22,470 --> 01:12:20,480
to where people feel

1985
01:12:25,110 --> 01:12:22,480
more comfortable nowadays

1986
01:12:28,630 --> 01:12:25,120
with the stigma more at bay and

1987
01:12:29,750 --> 01:12:28,640
diminishing um where where people are

1988
01:12:31,590 --> 01:12:29,760
you know

1989
01:12:32,709 --> 01:12:31,600
open to sharing their experiences more

1990
01:12:35,510 --> 01:12:32,719
so i think that's kind of what we're

1991
01:12:39,669 --> 01:12:38,070
and gents that is pretty much as for for

1992
01:12:40,390 --> 01:12:39,679
time what i'd like to ask though just

1993
01:12:42,310 --> 01:12:40,400
for

1994
01:12:43,669 --> 01:12:42,320
a final pitch to the listeners not that

1995
01:12:45,430 --> 01:12:43,679
you need to sell it any more than you

1996
01:12:47,350 --> 01:12:45,440
already have is looking at what

1997
01:12:49,990 --> 01:12:47,360
wonderful event i think the quality of

1998
01:12:51,750 --> 01:12:50,000
the speakers speak for themselves again

1999
01:12:54,390 --> 01:12:51,760
apologies i've not mentioned them enough

2000
01:12:56,390 --> 01:12:54,400
but not just yourselves as hosts uh but

2001
01:12:58,790 --> 01:12:56,400
the wonderful priscilla stone of quantum

2002
01:13:00,950 --> 01:12:58,800
match cafe and kelly chase of ufo rabbit

2003
01:13:03,270 --> 01:13:00,960
hole podcast are both helping with

2004
01:13:04,790 --> 01:13:03,280
hosting duties as well

2005
01:13:07,510 --> 01:13:04,800
your final thoughts on what people can

2006
01:13:11,189 --> 01:13:07,520
expect if they either turn up in person

2007
01:13:14,229 --> 01:13:11,199
or if they sign into the virtual event

2008
01:13:16,390 --> 01:13:14,239
yeah i mean again the in-person event uh

2009
01:13:19,350 --> 01:13:16,400
is gonna be very intimate it's a it's uh

2010
01:13:22,470 --> 01:13:19,360
you know only about 140 people

2011
01:13:24,870 --> 01:13:22,480
at this event in a very beautiful space

2012
01:13:26,709 --> 01:13:24,880
so i think that people who go in person

2013
01:13:29,189 --> 01:13:26,719
are gonna definitely

2014
01:13:31,430 --> 01:13:29,199
uh you know be able to speak to the

2015
01:13:33,030 --> 01:13:31,440
the participants but also the different

2016
01:13:35,270 --> 01:13:33,040
people attending there

2017
01:13:37,189 --> 01:13:35,280
um and they'll have an opportunity to

2018
01:13:38,950 --> 01:13:37,199
network and and you know make those

2019
01:13:40,470 --> 01:13:38,960
connections and actually see people in

2020
01:13:41,910 --> 01:13:40,480
person

2021
01:13:45,030 --> 01:13:41,920
you know again for people who are who

2022
01:13:47,030 --> 01:13:45,040
are tuning in from the live stream

2023
01:13:48,950 --> 01:13:47,040
i i can't emphasize enough as you know

2024
01:13:50,310 --> 01:13:48,960
this is an attempt this is an event that

2025
01:13:51,910 --> 01:13:50,320
i would want to

2026
01:13:53,110 --> 01:13:51,920
to go to this is an event that i would

2027
01:13:55,750 --> 01:13:53,120
want to attend

2028
01:13:57,110 --> 01:13:55,760
um because of the the people speaking

2029
01:13:59,830 --> 01:13:57,120
there right um

2030
01:14:02,149 --> 01:13:59,840
you know dr gary nolan of course is has

2031
01:14:04,070 --> 01:14:02,159
really been leading the conversation now

2032
01:14:05,750 --> 01:14:04,080
and it's an honor to have him there as

2033
01:14:06,870 --> 01:14:05,760
well as everybody else

2034
01:14:08,630 --> 01:14:06,880
so

2035
01:14:11,110 --> 01:14:08,640
again i think it's going to be very

2036
01:14:13,669 --> 01:14:11,120
inclusive and and cutting edge i i don't

2037
01:14:15,510 --> 01:14:13,679
want to like to our own horns but i i

2038
01:14:17,110 --> 01:14:15,520
really think that

2039
01:14:18,709 --> 01:14:17,120
what we're bringing here with this

2040
01:14:20,950 --> 01:14:18,719
conference and event is kind of where

2041
01:14:23,270 --> 01:14:20,960
the the conversation is is beginning to

2042
01:14:25,830 --> 01:14:23,280
go and where we'll be going for the for

2043
01:14:29,669 --> 01:14:25,840
the years to come

2044
01:14:31,510 --> 01:14:29,679
yeah i i completely agree with james i i

2045
01:14:34,149 --> 01:14:31,520
think for those that might

2046
01:14:35,030 --> 01:14:34,159
be thinking about attending virtually

2047
01:14:36,709 --> 01:14:35,040
you know

2048
01:14:38,070 --> 01:14:36,719
what james and i are trying to do here

2049
01:14:40,790 --> 01:14:38,080
and i think

2050
01:14:43,350 --> 01:14:40,800
we were having conversation andy before

2051
01:14:45,669 --> 01:14:43,360
we got into the recording zone here

2052
01:14:48,229 --> 01:14:45,679
today about like looking at the future

2053
01:14:50,470 --> 01:14:48,239
of events within our field and i think

2054
01:14:52,550 --> 01:14:50,480
we recognize that that people like

2055
01:14:53,830 --> 01:14:52,560
ourselves have been making moves within

2056
01:14:55,430 --> 01:14:53,840
this field we've been having

2057
01:14:57,430 --> 01:14:55,440
conversations with others we've been

2058
01:15:00,149 --> 01:14:57,440
making important connections

2059
01:15:02,630 --> 01:15:00,159
and that it's important for the field of

2060
01:15:06,709 --> 01:15:02,640
these conferences and in person events

2061
01:15:09,510 --> 01:15:06,719
to evolve to match the con the level of

2062
01:15:10,390 --> 01:15:09,520
integrity and intellectual rigor that

2063
01:15:13,750 --> 01:15:10,400
we've been

2064
01:15:15,350 --> 01:15:13,760
community

2065
01:15:17,510 --> 01:15:15,360
you know i think that's incredibly

2066
01:15:19,750 --> 01:15:17,520
important and you know just as far as a

2067
01:15:22,870 --> 01:15:19,760
generational thing goes we see

2068
01:15:23,750 --> 01:15:22,880
conferences often happen and

2069
01:15:26,310 --> 01:15:23,760
and

2070
01:15:29,270 --> 01:15:26,320
we kind of graft our

2071
01:15:32,149 --> 01:15:29,280
our enthusiasm into a situation that

2072
01:15:34,070 --> 01:15:32,159
might be kind of m more in the general

2073
01:15:35,510 --> 01:15:34,080
kind of ancient aliens framework of the

2074
01:15:38,310 --> 01:15:35,520
field or something like that and that

2075
01:15:40,310 --> 01:15:38,320
can be totally okay you know uh people

2076
01:15:42,550 --> 01:15:40,320
that that'll be there that day at our

2077
01:15:44,229 --> 01:15:42,560
conference um have appeared on shows

2078
01:15:45,590 --> 01:15:44,239
like that for sure and that's totally

2079
01:15:46,790 --> 01:15:45,600
cool

2080
01:15:48,870 --> 01:15:46,800
but you know

2081
01:15:50,470 --> 01:15:48,880
in a situation like this it's important

2082
01:15:53,270 --> 01:15:50,480
i think to kind of

2083
01:15:55,189 --> 01:15:53,280
um vote with your interest in terms of

2084
01:15:57,990 --> 01:15:55,199
like the kinds of conversations that you

2085
01:16:01,189 --> 01:15:58,000
want to see in this field in the future

2086
01:16:03,669 --> 01:16:01,199
in the kinds of of conversations the

2087
01:16:06,790 --> 01:16:03,679
kind of networking the kinds of moves

2088
01:16:09,669 --> 01:16:06,800
that people can kind of push forward

2089
01:16:12,470 --> 01:16:09,679
to to grow the community and grow the

2090
01:16:13,830 --> 01:16:12,480
conversation and create leading-edge

2091
01:16:14,950 --> 01:16:13,840
situations

2092
01:16:17,270 --> 01:16:14,960
so

2093
01:16:19,510 --> 01:16:17,280
for those of of you that are listening

2094
01:16:21,030 --> 01:16:19,520
out there virtually

2095
01:16:23,030 --> 01:16:21,040
that might be interested in a virtual

2096
01:16:24,790 --> 01:16:23,040
ticket you know

2097
01:16:27,189 --> 01:16:24,800
what we're going to be creating is a

2098
01:16:29,350 --> 01:16:27,199
very intimate situation and not only

2099
01:16:31,669 --> 01:16:29,360
will you be able to watch it live you'll

2100
01:16:34,630 --> 01:16:31,679
have an archival recording afterwards

2101
01:16:38,070 --> 01:16:34,640
and that's significant and i think what

2102
01:16:39,110 --> 01:16:38,080
you'll see is you'll see a

2103
01:16:41,510 --> 01:16:39,120
a

2104
01:16:44,310 --> 01:16:41,520
of

2105
01:16:45,189 --> 01:16:44,320
congeniality

2106
01:16:50,630 --> 01:16:45,199
and

2107
01:16:53,030 --> 01:16:50,640
in in these kinds of public

2108
01:16:55,270 --> 01:16:53,040
conversations you know people are used

2109
01:16:57,270 --> 01:16:55,280
to having a stick in conferences and

2110
01:16:59,430 --> 01:16:57,280
people are used to going out and kind of

2111
01:17:02,790 --> 01:16:59,440
like doing their thing or something like

2112
01:17:05,510 --> 01:17:02,800
this and we intentionally chose people

2113
01:17:07,270 --> 01:17:05,520
that are that are consistently looking

2114
01:17:09,510 --> 01:17:07,280
at the field in such a way that they're

2115
01:17:12,070 --> 01:17:09,520
constantly trying to flip things over

2116
01:17:14,950 --> 01:17:12,080
and look at things from a fresh approach

2117
01:17:16,870 --> 01:17:14,960
and we think that that kind of energy is

2118
01:17:19,669 --> 01:17:16,880
going to really come across

2119
01:17:21,189 --> 01:17:19,679
in this very intimate event so

2120
01:17:23,110 --> 01:17:21,199
if you're interested you know we have

2121
01:17:27,030 --> 01:17:23,120
limited tickets um

2122
01:17:29,590 --> 01:17:27,040
19 live in person tickets and we have

2123
01:17:30,950 --> 01:17:29,600
about 700 i think left virtually

2124
01:17:32,950 --> 01:17:30,960
something like that

2125
01:17:34,310 --> 01:17:32,960
and so please

2126
01:17:37,350 --> 01:17:34,320
get out there as soon as humanly

2127
01:17:40,550 --> 01:17:37,360
possible um i'm sure andy will put links

2128
01:17:44,070 --> 01:17:40,560
in the description and uh we'll create a

2129
01:17:47,270 --> 01:17:44,080
a code for that ufo podcast folks uh to

2130
01:17:48,709 --> 01:17:47,280
be able to to get those tickets so thank

2131
01:17:50,470 --> 01:17:48,719
you all so much

2132
01:17:52,070 --> 01:17:50,480
awesome and thank you both and those

2133
01:17:53,189 --> 01:17:52,080
virtual tickets are limited folks

2134
01:17:55,430 --> 01:17:53,199
because you could just put out an

2135
01:17:57,270 --> 01:17:55,440
unlimited amount but to limit it gives

2136
01:17:59,030 --> 01:17:57,280
you the optimal bandwidth performance

2137
01:18:00,390 --> 01:17:59,040
and presentation as well for watching it

2138
01:18:01,990 --> 01:18:00,400
virtually so

2139
01:18:03,430 --> 01:18:02,000
i wish you all the best with this event

2140
01:18:04,870 --> 01:18:03,440
and i genuinely mean i would love to

2141
01:18:07,430 --> 01:18:04,880
have been there

2142
01:18:09,189 --> 01:18:07,440
next time i'll do my very best the event

2143
01:18:11,830 --> 01:18:09,199
is called an inquiry into anomalous

2144
01:18:13,510 --> 01:18:11,840
experiences and the phenomenon links are

2145
01:18:15,590 --> 01:18:13,520
in the description the event takes place

2146
01:18:18,310 --> 01:18:15,600
october 8th in new york city at the

2147
01:18:20,470 --> 01:18:18,320
helen mills theater uh james and jay

2148
01:18:22,709 --> 01:18:20,480
thank you both very much and best of

2149
01:18:24,310 --> 01:18:22,719
luck with the upcoming event

2150
01:18:25,750 --> 01:18:24,320
thank you so much andy

2151
01:18:27,270 --> 01:18:25,760
andy it's

2152
01:18:28,790 --> 01:18:27,280
an absolute pleasure to be on the show

2153
01:18:30,790 --> 01:18:28,800
again thank you so much for making the

2154
01:18:32,950 --> 01:18:30,800
time deeply appreciated

2155
01:18:34,390 --> 01:18:32,960
folks at the start of this year i got a

2156
01:18:36,229 --> 01:18:34,400
bit of a health scare and it

2157
01:18:38,149 --> 01:18:36,239
kick-started me to getting fitter

2158
01:18:40,870 --> 01:18:38,159
healthier and generally looking after

2159
01:18:42,950 --> 01:18:40,880
myself better a healthier breakfast was

2160
01:18:44,390 --> 01:18:42,960
high on my priority list and it should

2161
01:18:46,709 --> 01:18:44,400
be for you too

2162
01:18:49,110 --> 01:18:46,719
magic spoon is the perfect way to get in

2163
01:18:50,870 --> 01:18:49,120
your morning protein eating cereal that

2164
01:18:52,870 --> 01:18:50,880
tastes like it did when you were a kid

2165
01:18:54,950 --> 01:18:52,880
without all the bad stuff i can promise

2166
01:18:57,270 --> 01:18:54,960
you there is nothing unidentified in

2167
01:19:00,070 --> 01:18:57,280
this cereal the variety pack has four

2168
01:19:02,630 --> 01:19:00,080
flavors including cocoa fruity frosted

2169
01:19:05,910 --> 01:19:02,640
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2170
01:19:08,470 --> 01:19:05,920
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2171
01:19:11,430 --> 01:19:08,480
and only four net grams of carbs there

2172
01:19:14,149 --> 01:19:11,440
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2173
01:19:16,870 --> 01:19:14,159
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2174
01:19:18,790 --> 01:19:16,880
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2175
01:19:21,030 --> 01:19:18,800
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2176
01:19:23,470 --> 01:19:21,040
joy to your mornings afternoons or

2177
01:19:26,470 --> 01:19:23,480
actually any time of day go to

2178
01:19:28,790 --> 01:19:26,480
magicspoon.com forward slash that ufo to

2179
01:19:31,669 --> 01:19:28,800
grab a variety pack and try it today be

2180
01:19:34,070 --> 01:19:31,679
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2181
01:19:36,630 --> 01:19:34,080
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2182
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2183
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2184
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2185
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2186
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2187
01:19:51,669 --> 01:19:48,320
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2188
01:19:54,550 --> 01:19:51,679
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2189
01:19:56,709 --> 01:19:54,560
and use that code that ufo to save five

2190
01:19:59,350 --> 01:19:56,719
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2191
01:20:01,270 --> 01:19:59,360
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2192
01:20:03,270 --> 01:20:01,280
this week's show thank you very much for

2193
01:20:06,070 --> 01:20:03,280
listening please remember to leave the

2194
01:20:08,790 --> 01:20:06,080
podcaster review on your chosen platform

2195
01:20:10,950 --> 01:20:08,800
you can like retweet and subscribe that

2196
01:20:12,950 --> 01:20:10,960
would all be very much appreciated the

2197
01:20:14,870 --> 01:20:12,960
shows are being uploaded onto youtube as

2198
01:20:17,430 --> 01:20:14,880
we speak more and more you can sign up

2199
01:20:20,149 --> 01:20:17,440
at patreon.com forward slash that ufo

2200
01:20:22,390 --> 01:20:20,159
podcast access shows ad free as well

2201
01:20:25,270 --> 01:20:22,400
please get in touch on twitter facebook

2202
01:20:28,390 --> 01:20:25,280
instagram that ufo podcast of course on

2203
01:20:30,550 --> 01:20:28,400
twitter it's at ufouapam

2204
01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:30,560
and again folks as always keep looking

2205
01:20:53,990 --> 01:20:33,570
up you never know what you might see

2206
01:20:54,000 --> 01:21:00,700
is

2207
01:21:41,350 --> 01:21:23,250
[Music]

2208
01:21:51,189 --> 01:21:44,470
because it doesn't really scare me

2209
01:21:53,430 --> 01:21:51,199
[Music]

2210
01:21:59,120 --> 01:21:53,440
if you really want to know who i think

2211
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:04,530
[Music]

2212
01:22:39,189 --> 01:22:33,570
what's that is

2213
01:22:41,110 --> 01:22:39,199
[Music]

2214
01:22:52,180 --> 01:22:41,120
it wasn't a tic tac and not quite a

2215
01:23:27,990 --> 01:23:01,750
[Music]

2216
01:23:28,000 --> 01:23:32,810
yes